Sherrington Parish Registers - DOWNING (DOWNYNG), 16th century

[dukewm]

One other notable fact:
The Will of Nicholas Downing, dated 18 Feb 1698, also mentions a brother "William".
The way it is worded indicates "William" was NOT Adam's father.
So, what we must find is the origins of brothers Nicholas and William Downing along with a third brother, perhaps but not necessarily, named "Henry".

I found a Nicholas (with years of birth and death matching exactly) and Henry (with years that are close) from Bradfield, Yorkshire, but no "William".
The Nicholas and Henry of Bradfield were both baptized and died there and were sons of "John".
There was however, a William, son of John, bap. 1628 (a year after Nicholas) at Sedgley, Staffordshire.  Sedgley is about 65 miles southwest of Bradfield.
This is the closest group I have found.

[Robert Stedall]

Rick,

An assessment of Downing Family trees

You are right that I am an author and I have most recently written a history of the London Livery Companies in Ireland. I am thus quite familiar with the Williamite Wars. I was approached by Peter Fullerton of the Irish Downing/Fullerton families, who happens to be a connection by marriage. He sent me his assessment of a memoir of the family prepared by Alexander Fullerton in in 1893. The memoir as it turns out is a highly fanciful document providing some unrealistic family trees.

You may not be aware that there was an earlier Downing family in Ireland. Lt. (later Major) John Downing b. c. 1581 served under Sir Francis Berkeley at the siege of Dunboyne Castle in 1602. In a recent history, Regions and Rulers of Ireland 1600-1650, he is described as ‘a native of Suffolk and one of the ruthless commanders who oversaw mass execution at Dursey Island near Cork,’ after the battle of Kinsale in 1601. He later was posted to Ulster, where he married Margaret and had a son George. George became a landlord of 3,000 acres on the Fishmongers’ proportion, living at what is now New Walworth House at Ballykelly, then the Fishmongers’ castle and bawn. Although there is no record of George’s marriage, he had a son George who became Comptroller of Customs for the Irish Society and married Jane daughter of Hugh Montgomery of Ballygowan. 

It had long been assumed by the Irish family that Colonel Adam Downing was the son of George Downing and Jane Montgomery. It was also assumed that the portrait of Jane Downing, lent to Downing College Cambridge by the Fullertons, was of Jane Montgomery. There was a complication in this theory that the Irish family were aware that there was also a Jane Clotworthy somewhere in the family, particularly as Adam had a grandson, Clotworthy Downing, and they assumed that she was connected to Sir John Clotworthy, 1st Viscount Massereene. Yet there is no mention of her in Clotworthy of Massereene family trees. Sir John was b. in 1595, and his only known child Mary m. Sir John Skeffington, who became the 2nd Viscount Massereene in right of his wife. The Downing family even wondered if Jane Clotworthy were the missing wife of George, the Fishmongers’ tenant. Yet they had no evidence for this.

When I came on the scene, I looked at the family tree of WC Downing and R Wilberforce prepared in 1903 and read that Adam Downing had arrived in Ireland from London with his own regiment in about1689 fighting with distinction in support of the Williamites at the siege of Londonderry and the Battle of the Boyne. As a result he was granted a large area of land near Bellaghy. The Downing/ Wilberforce family tree also claimed that Adam was the son of Henry Downing and Jane Clotworthy, no less, and that Henry (and his brothers Nicholas and William) were the sons of Emmanuel Downing and Lucy Winthrop. If this is correct, it makes Adam a nephew of Sir George Downing, who made his name fighting for Cromwell, and would have had deep enough pockets to fund a regiment for Adam. I was now in little doubt that the Irish family were wrong in their assumption that Adam was in some way descended from George and Jane Montgomery (and there is no evidence for this Jane having children), and that the portrait of Jane b. c. 1640 was likely to be of Jane Clotworthy. As Jane Clotworthy and Henry Downing lived in London, and there is no evidence that they visited Ireland, it became less likely that she was the daughter of Massereene. Yet Masserene was in London in c. 1641 and became a member of Parliament, closely associated with the impeachment of Thomas Wentworth, Earl of Strafford. (As an aside, if Jane Clotworthy were a Massereene connection, you might think that Adam would have mentioned it at the Mausoleum at Bellaghy. He mentions his Devonshire connection (when we know that the Downings came from Norfolk and Suffolk) and this can only refer to the Clotworthy family. As he mentions his wife’s family, the Jacksons, and their significance in Ireland, you might assume that he would mention the Clotworthy family, given their important role in the development of Ulster, if he were Massereene’s grandson.

I have had to cut this message in half as it is too long for Rootsweb.
I will send a second message with the rest.

Robert

[Robert Stedall]

This is the second part of my earlier message.

Enough on Jane Clotworthy.

You are skeptical of the view that Henry, Nicholas and William Downing were the sons of Emmanuel Downing and Lucy Winthrop, notwithstanding their inclusion in the family tree of Downing and Wilberforce. These three are not included in the visitation family tree in the Suffolk manorial records. Yet this tree has been pieced together from the known wills and letters that the Heralds had available to them, and Lucy Winthrop’s letters do not mention Henry, Nicholas and William. Lucy Winthrop was a fecund lady well capable of popping out a child every year or so. I have gone through all the family records that I can find (proven or unproven) and I have found the following offspring for her: 

Sir George b. 1623 St Michael Cornhill V
Lucy b. 13 3 1625 Ipswich Suffolk V
Joshua b. 1627  V
Nicholas b. 1629 London
Robert b. 24 3 1629 London V
Henry b. 10 3 1630
Adam d. 1631 V
Ann bp 12 4 1633 St Bride’s Fleet, St V
Martha b. 1636 V
John b. 1 3 1640 Salem Massachusetts  V
Dorcas b. Abt. 1641  V

I have not found a birth record for William (only mentioned in Nicholas’s will), but there are gaps in the list able to fit him in, and Robert and Nicholas could be twins. I have also read in one family tree that there were twelve children (although it only named some of them). I mark with a V those mentioned in the Visitation family tree. It is perfectly reasonable for Lucy to have had a few more and the dates fit. It is also worth noting that there was an Adam (not a particularly usual name), and Henry, might have named his eldest son after a favorite brother. Given that Lucy was also responsible for 6 step children and that they were spread between Massachusetts and England, keeping tabs on them all would not have been straightforward!

I accept that I am dealing in probabilities and you like facts, but it is not unreasonable conjecture and no one has provided a plausible alternative.

I would now like to turn to Emmanuel’s father. Stirnet 1 has followed Burke’s Extinct Baronetage in making Emmanuel the son of Calybute Downing  and hence a descendant of Jeffrey / Geoffrey Downing and Elizabeth Wingfield. We know from the visitation family tree, confirmed by the wills, that Emmanuel was the son of George, the Ipswich Schoolmaster.  The Visitation makes the Schoolmaster’s wife Miss Bellamy.  In other family trees on line, particularly on Geni, she is shown as Dorcas Blois but with an identical death date of 21 12 1610 to Miss Bellamy. There are various family trees of the Blois family at Grundisburgh (generally misspelt Gundisberg in the Downing trees) near Ipswich in Suffolk. There is a later Baronetcy. On some of them they mention Dorcas as the wife of George the Schoolmaster. I am not very convinced about any of them but she seems to be the daughter of William Blois and Frances Tye, and was b. 1560 in Ipswich and d. 21 12 1610 at Kesgrave, Ipswich. She is reputed to have married the schoolmaster in 1576 at Ipswich.
At this point, if we accept the Visitation family tree, based as it is on the wills of George Sr. who d. in 1556 and the Schoolmaster who d. on 8 10 1610 at Beccles, Suffolk,( it is difficult to refute them) then Emmanuel is not descended from Geoffrey/Jeffrey Downing and Elizabeth Wingfield. This presents a problem. Alexander Fullerton in his Memoir produced a magnificent coat of arms for himself quartering him to the Wingfield family, who descend from the FitzAlans, Edward I etc. It is probable that he thought he was! Yet if he is not a descendant of the earlier Downing family in Ireland who seem to descend from Arthur the indisputed son of Elizabeth Wingfield or from Calybut Downing as shown in Burke’s extinct baronetcy, and George the Schoolmaster is not the son of Elizabeth Wingfield as often assumed, then Elizabeth is not his ancestor! The question is, was this Coat of Arms registered with the College of Heralds and did they approve it. If so, we may have got it all wrong and we would need the College of Heralds to explain, which would cost money. If not as seem more likely given all the uncertainties along the way, then he was a bit of a poser! 

One further find. Geoffrey is often described as of Poles Beecham. This was St. Pauls Belchamp.

I welcome your comments, but will be away for ten days from Monday evening.
 
Robert

[Robert Stedall]

I am away for 10 days from this evening and no one has responded to my messages above, perhaps because you have all long since rejected my views. i have re-read a lot of the evidence and one has to accept that there is much in the Downing/Wilberforce memoir that is of very doubtful veracity.  I am slightly put out that Nicholas Downing was living at Drumard (not Drummond), a townland near Maghera, Co. Londonderry at the time of his death in 1698, and he is buried apparently at Church Island (no longer an island) at Lough Beg.  This is very close to Bellaghy. He was not buried in the Mausoleum at St Tida's, Bellaghy, presumably because it was not built until 1719, but it is surprising that the Mausoleum makes no mention of earlier Downing ancestry in Ireland, if Nicholas (and his wife Mary) had been living there for a long time (or were a member of an Irish Downing family). I think that I have searched about all i can do on line. The position that we are in is extraordinarily unsatisfactory. I feel that we need someone to do some research at PRONI. I will try to put this in train on my return.

[dukewm]

Hi Robert,
Thank you so much for your detailed messages.
Sorry, I was working on some pressing issues the last few days and am just now getting back to this.  You have provided some excellent insight that I will digest and respond to but it will probably take me some time. 
I was aware of a George Downing who was of Londonderry City, as I recall, in about 1620, but had no follow up info on him, so he was always in the back of my mind as a potential link to Adam.

As for facts and speculation, I'm afraid I am somewhere between the two.
Just so you know, I am deeply into the process of writing the sequel to our "Downing Book", the © 1901 WC Downing "masterpiece", which we know contains some inaccuracies.
Until I can "prove" my two "broken links", some of my sequel remains speculation whereby I propose several plausible theories.  So I am facing the dilemma of publishing a genealogical volume that may be largely "fact" but currently relies on fiction.

I am also aware of the Norfolk and Suffolk Downings, which may or may not, relate to MY branch, and of course, Geoffrey and Calybute (the elder) married into royal descent.  We have three descendants of the Irish Downings working on all of this, and all of us agree that Mr. "R. Wilberforce" may have been something of a charlatan "genealogist" who gave WC Downing a set of highly questionable data that would have been hard for WC to dispute at the time, all in the effort to portray my closer ancestors as royal descendants, and perhaps a nice "tip", or bonus.

Anyway, I'll put together some more and send you an email so we can communicate further.
I hope you don't mind, but I think it wise to forward your recent messages to my family researchers for additional input.  I'll keep your email to myself.
I am most grateful to have "met" you and look forward to sharing what we know.

Forward Into the Past.
Rick Turner 

[TimMansfield]

Dear members of this group,

I was delighted to read your contributions about the Downing family of Northern Ireland. I have to admit that it is quite a puzzle! Col. Adam Downing is my 6th great-grandfather and I come from the Australian branch of the family on my mother's side.

Please also see a story I wrote under my pseudonym Jack Hammersley here:

https://jack-hammersley.com/2009/07/12/colonel-adam-downing-and-the-siege-of-londonderry-1689/

Kind regards,

Tim Mansfield

[sarah]

This message has been posted on behalf of Robert who sent the message to me in error.

Regards

Sarah

I have read your write up with great  interest. You might like to look at my recent book, Men of Substance (see Amazon) which is a history of the London Livery companies in Ulster. This has a full chapter on the siege of Londonderry. A lot of the people mentioned in your list of names are mentioned in my book, but not Adam Downing. Peter Fullerton als has a write up about Adam in Ireland and I will send this on my return from holiday

[Robert Stedall]

While in The Gambia, I worried about another issue. The poem written after the siege of Londonderry, says:

On angry foes proud frowning
From Dawson's Bridge his fair abode
Came gallant Adam Downing.

Assuming that this is genuine verse, it implies that Adam was living at Dawson's Bridge before the siege. Yet I have assumed that he was granted land as a result of his heroics at the siege and at the Battle of the Boyne. 

James II provided a list of those who should be considered guilty of treason during the siege of Londonderry. This includes 'Captain Adam Downing of Bellaghy'. This again implies that he held land at Bellaghy before the siege. 

It would also seem that Nicholas Downing was buried at the Island Church at Lough Beg. This suggests that he was living in Ireland at the time of his death and left his Irish estates to Adam. Perhaps he had lived there all his life. 

None of this seems to coincide with Colonel Adam Downing raising a regiment and arriving from England. 

I have looked up the Dawson's Bridge web site, and there is no mention of the Downings there before the acquisition of Rowe's Gift. It would seem that the Dawsons acquired the township from the Phillipses and continued to hold it thereafter. Why was Adam's grandson 'Dawson Downing'. Was he a Dawson godson, or did he have a maternal Dawson forebear? 

All tantalisingly confusing. Do we know where Nicholas Downing was at the time of writing his will?

I am trying to arrange some research at PRONI.

[dukewm]

Hi Robert,

I have been busy on another project but literally can't wait to delve into your insights and the content of your recent messages.
Considering the amount of content and the comments that could potentially follow, I decided to tackle things in small increments.
(today's message is in TWO parts)

Let me reference the 2nd paragraph of your message dated 25 Feb 2017, Part 1 of 2, as it contains something that "jumped off the page" to me.
Your quote:
"You may not be aware that there was an earlier Downing family in Ireland. Lt. (later Major) John Downing b. c. 1581 served under Sir Francis Berkeley
at the siege of Dunboyne Castle in 1602. In a recent history, Regions and Rulers of Ireland 1600-1650, he is described as ‘a native of Suffolk
and one of the ruthless commanders who oversaw mass execution at Dursey Island near Cork,’ after the battle of Kinsale in 1601.
He later was posted to Ulster, where he married Margaret and had a son George. George became a landlord of 3,000 acres on the Fishmongers’ proportion,
living at what is now New Walworth House at Ballykelly, then the Fishmongers’ castle and bawn. Although there is no record of George’s marriage,
he had a son George who became Comptroller of Customs for the Irish Society and married Jane daughter of Hugh Montgomery of Ballygowan."

What struck me was 1. "John b. c. 1581" ; 2. he being "of Suffolk" ; and 3. 'Jane' being the name of Adam's mother.
Although there were plenty of 'John' Downings roaming around in the era of interest, we need to follow any leads that develop.
One avenue of investigation is to determine whether Maj. John Downing, b. abt. 1581, could have been the son of Arthur Downing of Lexham.

Arthur Downinge, son of Jefferry Downinge, bap. 10 May 1543 at Belchamp St Paul, Essex (Essex Parish Regesters)
The 1901 Downing book claims that Geoffrey (Jefferry) of Pynest, Poles Belcham (present day Belchamp St Paul), County Essex , was “the first of whom detailed information can be obtained”.
Lexham, Norfolk is located about 47 miles north, and slightly east, of Belchamp St Paul.

From The Visitations of Norfolk 1563, 1589, and 1613 ; page 113, we know that Arthur Downing, son of Geoffrey, had a son John,
followed by Calibutt (Calybutt Sr, or the elder), Dorothy, Anne, and Susan. 
If the order shown was the actual birth order, John would have been the presumed heir.
The 1901 Downing book shows Calybut as the first born in 1574, followed by John (1581), Dorothy (1584), Anne (1586), and Susan (1589)
We also know that Arthur Downing was "of Lexham, County Norfolk", and that he married
Susan Calybutt, daughter of John (not Thomas) Calybutt of Castle Acre, Norfolk.
From the Clare, Suffolk Parish Register FL 501/4/1, we can see they were married 22 Nov 1570, rebuking the 1901 Downing book claim of a 1573 marriage.
The 1570 marriage also leaves plenty of time for John to have been born before Calybut.
Clare, Suffolk is only about 3 miles northeast of Belchamp St Paul, Essex. 
Clearly, Arthur and Susan married near his father and at some point migrated north to Lexham.
It is reasonable to believe that their son, John, may have been "of Suffolk", which lies between Essex and Norfolk.

Let's bring Rattlesden into the picture.  Rattlesden, Suffolk is just 16 miles northeast of Belchamp St Paul and about 35 miles south of Lexham.
from familysearch.org: (all have documented folios)
1. John Downinge, son of John Downinge, bap. 27 Dec 1610 at Rattlesden, Suffolk - mother: Hester
   John, the father, could have been born about 1581, but almost 100% certainly NOT 'Maj. John', who was in Ireland by 1601.
   However, he can not be discounted as Arthur's son, and he could have been born as early as 1571 (considering the 1570 marriage).
   Some accounts have John, son of Arthur, having been born about 1581 and died 1617.  These dates are undocumented and may be unreliable.
2. Hester Downing, dau. of John Downing, bap. 5 Mar 1637 at Rattlesden, Suffolk - named after her paternal grandmother                        
3. John Downing, son of John Downing, bap. 27 Dec 1638 at Rattlesden, Suffolk
   great grandson of Arthur and father of Adam ?
   Line (speculated): Arthur, b. 1543 > John, b. 1571/81(?) > John, b. 1610 > John, b. 1638 > Adam, b. 1666
   NOTE: this John had a brother named William but how would Nicholas fit in ? 
   We know from the Will of Nicholas Downing, dated 18 Feb 1698, that Adam was Nicholas' nephew and that he had an uncle William.
4. William Downing, son of John Downing, bap. 31 Jan 1641 at Rattlesden, Suffolk
5. John Downing, son of John Downing, bap. 11 Mar 1669 at Rattlesden, Suffolk
   Adam did have a brother John, but also had brothers George, Samuel, and perhaps Daniel. None of them have surfaced via online research.

continued