Author Topic: James Mossman- executed in 1573  (Read 24467 times)

Offline Andee

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #9 on: Friday 29 October 10 14:39 BST (UK) »
Where did you find info about Janet King?  All I have seen was Mariotta Arres, and if my faulty memory serves me, that is the name that was at the Mosman/Knox house.  Could Janet have been a first wife and then Mariotta the second w/ son John?  I need to contact the Scottish historical society in Edinburgh.  I can't remember the street name, but can see it in my head!  Is on a kind of circular lane just down from the Greyfriars church.  Will see what I can find.  It was a unique little place - all kinds of books and "stuff".
Andee

Offline Kylie B

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #10 on: Monday 01 November 10 07:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi Andee
It was in the Scottish Parlimentary records online- there is a remission allowing Janet King- spouse of deceased James Mossman to continuet o live in property he left her. This was after his execution.

No other sign of her as his wife....

Kylie B

Offline DallasDeb

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #11 on: Friday 06 January 12 08:14 GMT (UK) »
"Grandfather" (Sir Andrew Mosman) was knighted by Margaret Tudor in the name of James V after he survived the battle at Flodden field. Sir Andrew also fought at, and survived, the battle at Solway Moss. His son, Sir John Mosman (Glasgow), incarcerated in Tobooth prison, Edinburgh in the time of James V (1513-1532) on account of his loyalty to the crown.  He effected an escape to Holland. In 1540 Sir John redesigned an older, lighter, damaged crown for James V, into its current form. These are the oldest set of Crown Jewels in the British Isles and the second oldest in Europe. The crown was first worn by James V to the coronation of his second wife, Mary of Guise, as queen consort at Holyrood Abbey, Edinburgh, in the year of its manufacture.  It was subsequently used in the coronations of the child monarchs Mary, Queen of Scots in 1543 and her son James VI, King of Scots in 1567 and today can still be seen in Edinburgh Castle. 

The Mosmans were a long-standing family of goldsmiths. Sir James Mosman was Sir John Mosman's son. The Mosmans were removed from their court offices as goldsmiths and royal assays in the Protestant revolution of 1559–60 but restored to favour when Mary returned from France in 1561.

Sir James Mosman had two sons, John (b 1565 - d1608) from his first wife, Marriotta (Arres) (wed 1556, d 12/23/1570), and James (b ~1571-?) from his second wife Janet (King) wed 2/23/1571.  He also had two daughters, Janet & Marriotta. 

In 1568, James Mosman and Marriotta Arres conveyed the house at 43 High Street, known now as the John Knox house, to John Mosman, goldsmith, their son and his heirs in fee, but reserved to themselves the liferent for the while lives.  We learn from a sasine of February 23rd, 1571, that Marriotta Arres was dead (from pneumonia), and that James Mosman was about to marry for the second time.  He bought back the fee from his son, and immediately insert himself and his future spouse Janet King in the family residence in the Netherbow.  Because John Knox appeared to have lived for a short time there and then died, historians have rennovated the house through the ages and it still stands as the best example of a building from that time period.

For his service to the crown, James was knighted during Mary’s wedding to Henry Darnley and awarded a crest with the motto:  more honorable, more dependable, more worthy of trust than the rest.  Mosman was one of the Queen’s Men who occupied and defended Edinburgh Castle in her name. Not only did Mosman set up a ‘cunyie’ or mint in the Castle, but he seems to have pawned the royal jewels, against his own security, to finance its defense and effect the release of Queen Mary from Elizabeth’s prisons in England. He was captured and tortured to reveal the location of the queen's jewels which he had hidden within the castle walls. It is unclear whether he revealed their location, or whether they were easily found. While many of the Queen’s Men were pardoned in an attempt to end the civil war, Mosman was one of the few leaders picked out for punishment. Having lost all his worldly goods he was dragged behind a cart past his house backwards and hung, drawn and quartered at the Mercat Cross in 1573. The writ of execution said the head was to remain on a pike until the winds blew it down…however Janet, his widow, was able to pay to have it removed.  He may have been buried in the cemetary at the back of St. Giles Church which is now a parking lot.

Nov 12, London, John Mosman to the Queen of Scots. Begs that she will give him a sum of money to set him up in trade for the support of himself and the other children of James Mosman, their father, who was hanged with the Laird of Greange, because he was her Grace’s Master Ciner and true subject. 

In 1581 lands were assigned to John, “ the eldest son of the late James Mosman, goldsmith…” These lands were sold the following year with the consent of his uncle John Mosman.

John apprenticed as a goldsmith with his uncle, John Mosman, as did his brother
James, later in 1586. 

Mary, Queen of Scotts was executed on February 8, 1587.

John Mosman Sr. (son of Sir James) had a son, John Jr. (b 1600 - d 1633) who married Isabel (Gardner) and had a son named James Mosman (b 1626-d 1722) who married Anna and immigrated to America and the Massachusetts Bay Colony and settled in Wrentham, MA around 1675 to be a blacksmith.  Because of the indian wars with King Phillip, James and Anna left Wrentham in 1676 and settled in Roxbury, MA. 

There is a street called Mossman off of the Old Sudbury Road near Waltham, MA, and tomestones of the Mosmans in the Old Revolutionary Cemetary.  Many descendants of the Mosman family lived there in Sudbury, MA and in Maine.  My great grandfather moved from there to Minnesota, where my mom was born.

Offline GR2

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #12 on: Friday 06 January 12 16:26 GMT (UK) »
John Knox never lived in the Mossman house. He stayed nearby in a house rented from John Adamson. There are two papers in the Pr. Soc. Ant. Scot. which set out the evidence.

Graham.


Offline Kylie B

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 07 January 12 01:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi DallasDeb
That is quite a history- thanks very much!
Have you seen the sasine taking back the fee from his son prior to his marriage to Janet King?
And can you tell me- were the daughters Janet and Mariotta named after their respective mothers? Or were they both daughters of Janet King?

And where did you find the detail that Janet King paid to have her husbands head taken down- poor man- rather than be left as directed?

And lastly- thank you for the date of marriage for James Mossman and Janet King. I had not been able to find that as yet.

Kylie
PS Thanks Graham- there seems to be quite a bit of confusion over whether John Knox lived in the house or not- depends who you ask!! Good to know for sure now.

Offline DallasDeb

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #14 on: Monday 09 January 12 07:04 GMT (UK) »
I haven't seen the sasine with my own eyes...everything I find is online - Goggle books and the like.

re: John knox...there is a lot of conflicting evidence/opinions  -I'll add Graham's to my list. In the end, people believed Knox lived there...which is nice for the upkeep of the house and makes for a good story since the Mosman's served Mary so devotedly and Knox hated her and her devotion to her catholic faith. :o)

More I found:

Their family home was confiscated by the English and allegedly given to John Knox to live in during the siege of the castle because either his own house was damaged or in the firing line during the two years of battering by the English artillery. This is where Knox lived in frail health until he died.   It is possible that James’s widow, Janet, requested that the house be returned to her after Knox’s death as she was destitute as all the family monies had been used to cover the pawning of Mary’s Jewels in order to affect her release. . Because it is known as “John Knox's house” it has been well kept and restored through the ages so it still stands today as one of the oldest buildings in Edinburgh along the Royal Mile of High Street. The building was known to be renovated in the 1850’s and in the early 2000’s.*
 
 * From John Knox and the Town Council of Edinburgh by Robert Miller pg. 137.
-----
We learn from a sasine of February 23rd, 1571, that Mariot Arres was dead, and that James Mosman was about to marry for the second time.  So what was more natural than that he should secure a residence for his wife in what was probably then one of the best houses in Edinburgh and also to prevent her from being obliged to leave the family abode in the event of his pre-decease.  He bought back the fee from his son, and immediately insert himself and his future spouse Janet King in the family residence in the Netherbow.  pg 140 Mosman needed the house for himself and the sasine of February 1571 shows that he took  it back from his son.  Mosman, besides, was a strong supporter of the Queen, and it was not at all natural that he should let his house to Knox, even if family necessities had not stood in the way.  Supporters of Knox living in the house say from August 1572 until Knox’s death in November he lived there.  Some say Mosman’s house was empty as he had taken refuge with Kirkcaldy of Grange in the Castle, and he remained there until the surrender of the Castle in 1573.  However, there had been a truce between the parties which was concluded on July 31st, 1572, for two months, and it was extended subsequently until the end of the year, more than a month beyond the date of Knox’s death. A listing of tenants for the house in the Edinburgh Protocols, by Alexander Guthrie, VolI., fol. 41, 8 April 1563, John Knox, ministers. Register of Deeds, Vol. 8, fol. 1l, 24 March 1564, “Johnne Knox, minister of Edinburgh.” Do. Vol. III., fol. 40, 29 April 1630. A sasine of 1571 show the property as being “presently occupied by John Knox, minister.” Knox lived there from August 1572 until his death in November, but a sasine of February 1571 shows that James Mosman needed the house for himself and he took it back from his son John.

The info on the payment for head came from Geni.com I believe. 

Daughters:  Janet Mosman was born in 1573 and Marion Mosman in 1577 (I wrote Mariotta in error )according to Geni.com which means she was born long after Sir James was executed.  Geni.com also lists all of them as step children...which seems incorrect.

Also saw mentioned that Sir James’s teenage son (John) wrote to Mary in prison in England begging for her help and offering to serve her as a courier*.  Don't know the date of that document...but would be interesting if it was just prior to the conspiracy that was discovered and had many of Mary's servants executed. (*from the 2003 Journal of the Marie Stuart Society)

Could be this was the same, or another letter:  Nov 12, London, John Mosman to the Queen of Scots. Begs that she will give him a sum of money to set him up in trade for the support of himself and the other children of James Mosman, their father, who was hanged with the Laird of Greange, because he was her Grace’s Master Ciner and true subject.  (from Geni.com)

Offline Kylie B

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #15 on: Monday 09 January 12 08:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi DallasDeb
Hmm- seems we need to do some more investigating doesnt it?
If James Mossman married Marriotta in 1556- and died in 1570, then there is the possibility of far more children than just John- although it seems he was eldest son at least.

Also interesting to note- there was barely 2 months between Marriotta's death and his marriage to Janet King if these dates from Geni.com are correct.....thats a very short period!

And the letter of Nov 12 to Mary says other children- so at least that tends to confirm there was definately more than just John.

Could Janet have been marrying for a second time when she married JAmes Mossman, and therefore brought children with her??

I will do some more digging- let me know if you find anything more!!
Kylie

Offline lavenderhillmob

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 12 September 15 13:28 BST (UK) »
my ancestor is robert mossman son of james a jeweller in edinburgh. robert was on the scottish expedition nova scotia 1910c. i am very interested to know if he is related to james mossman 1573.ann

Offline DawnC86548

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Re: James Mossman- executed in 1573
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 21 August 16 22:04 BST (UK) »
HI,

One of my direct ancestors was John Mosman who had married Isobell Gardner.   I have been trying to figure out how he fits in the James Mosman family tree.   Supposely he was born in Edinburg in the early 1600s.   Was James his father or grandfather?   I find the story of James Mosman interesting, but sad at the same time.  It was a rough period of time for Scotland and all those who lived there.

Dawn
Wisconsin, USA