Author Topic: John Harry/Henry Green  (Read 12194 times)

Offline Vesta

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John Harry/Henry Green
« on: Thursday 22 April 10 21:13 BST (UK) »
I am searching for the birth of John Harry Green I have his death Certificate, died May 1848 in Staines age 48, also his Will. I believe his mother was a Miss Green. He appears to have worked in New Broad St, lived in Golden Sq & other London addresses, he was twice a bankrupt, he had a common law wife Sophia,one child born London 1843 from census, 2 children born Eastbourne & a 4th child born Gravesend after his death. Despite two visits to London I am having no success finding out where he was born--- any suggestions welcome.
Vesta

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: John Harry/Henry Green
« Reply #1 on: Friday 23 April 10 00:09 BST (UK) »
In which county is he living in 1841 and does the census show him as Y or N for born or not born in that county
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Offline nigelp

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Re: John Harry/Henry Green
« Reply #2 on: Friday 23 April 10 00:47 BST (UK) »
Essex - Burrell, Thorogood
Norfolk - Alcock, Bowen, Bowers, Breeze, Burton, Creamer, Hammond, Sparkes, Wakefield, Wiggett
North Devon - Burgess, Chalacombe, Collacott, Goss
Northamptonshire - George, Letts, Muscutt, Richardson
Somerset - Barber
Wiltshire - Brine, Burges, Carey, Gray, Lywood, Musselwhite, Perris, Read, Turner, Wilkins

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline LizzieW

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Re: John Harry/Henry Green
« Reply #3 on: Friday 23 April 10 00:53 BST (UK) »
Why do you think his mother was a MISS Green?    What was his occupation?  Have you found him on the 1841 census?  If not and you look at the John Greens born around 1800 you may find one who shared his occupation, giving you some idea of his place of birth.   You say that he had a common law wife and one child born in 1843 from the census, but that must have been the 1851 census and he had died by then, so how do you know this is the right "wife" and children.  Have you got their birth certificates?

On IGI there are some  London possibilities.  I only searched that area as you seem to think he lived at various London addresses.

John Harry Green baptised on 14 Nov 1799 St Botolph Bishopsgate, London, parents John and Harriet.

John Henry Green born 10 April 1799, baptised 19 May 1799 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone, London, parents John Green and Ann.

John Henry Green baptised 16 August 1801 Saint Andrew, Holborn, London, parents John Green and Elizabeth.

Lizzie

Offline CaroleW

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Re: John Harry/Henry Green
« Reply #4 on: Friday 23 April 10 00:55 BST (UK) »
Quote
What was his occupation?

See info re: previous thread posted by Nigel
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Offline Vesta

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Re: John Harry/Henry Green
« Reply #5 on: Friday 23 April 10 06:54 BST (UK) »
Firstly thank you all for the replies.
I have searched for him in the 1841 without success. I can find Sophia Beaumont in the 1841 in Hanover Sq born Bramerton Norfolk
John Harry claimed to be a Merchant & this is what is stated in the 2 Bankruptcy cases.
He leaves his pocessions to Miss Sophia Beaumont, a spinster, in his Will.
His first child Henry Barnard Green claims to have been  born London. from later censuses. I have birth Refs for the other 3 children & Baptism certs: Mother given as Sophia Green. In 1851 Sophia is back living with her parents in Bramerton with the children
I also have a number of family letters. His death notice in The Times states John Harry Green , Merchant of New Broad St.
I have no actual proof that John Harry's mother was not married only implications in family letters. The family seemed to change addresss very frequently.

I seem to be stuck
Vesta

Offline nigelp

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Re: John Harry/Henry Green
« Reply #6 on: Friday 23 April 10 09:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Vesta,

The first child may have been baptised as Harry Barnard Beaumont at Holy Trinity, Brompton Road, Kensington on 24 Dec 1844. His parents are named as John Harry and Sophia Beaumont of 114? Gloucester Road.

Nigel
Essex - Burrell, Thorogood
Norfolk - Alcock, Bowen, Bowers, Breeze, Burton, Creamer, Hammond, Sparkes, Wakefield, Wiggett
North Devon - Burgess, Chalacombe, Collacott, Goss
Northamptonshire - George, Letts, Muscutt, Richardson
Somerset - Barber
Wiltshire - Brine, Burges, Carey, Gray, Lywood, Musselwhite, Perris, Read, Turner, Wilkins

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Valda

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Re: John Harry/Henry Green
« Reply #7 on: Friday 23 April 10 16:59 BST (UK) »
Hi

Part 1


Sophia Beaumont on the 1841 census is living in St George Hanover Square (HO107 733)

Looking for John Greens in St George Hanover Square of the right age you find John Green aged 40 at 19 Grafton Square St George Hanover Square (HO107 734/1 folio 41). Not completely clear but he looks to be a merchant and gives his birthplace as Middlesex.
In the household are three other male merchants (dittoed) and 4 servants (1 male, 3 female). The other three merchants are Richard L Green also aged 40 (1841 census usually rounded down adult ages, those over 15) also born Middlesex. The other two merchants were Septimus Carlisle aged 25 and George indexed as Weaves but looks more like Meares aged 30, neither born Middlesex.

London Gazette 20th September 1842
Notice is hereby given that the Partnership heretofore subsisiting between John Harry Green, George Hammond Meares, and Edward Richards, carrying on business at No 26, Lombard-street, in the city of London as Ship and Insurance brokers, is this day dissolved by mutual consent - Dated this day 19th September 1842
John Harry Green
George Hammond Meares
Edwd Richards

London Gazette 5th April 1844
On Tuesday the 30th April 1844 at the same Hour and Place
Edward Richard (sued with John Harry Green and George Hammond Meares) formerly of No 20 John Street, Adelphi, and afterwards No 19 Grafton-street, Berkeley-square, both in the county of Middlesex, and subsequently of Cape de Verds, Rio de Janeiro, Monte Video and Buenos Ayres, in South America, and then of 19 Grafton-street aforesaid and afterwards of No 20, John-street aforesaid and during all the time carrying on business at No 26, Lombard-street  in the city of London, Merchant and Ship and Insurance Broker, and lately of No3, Princes-place, Duke-street, St James in the county aforesaid, out of business.


On his bankruptcy on 23rd April 1834 the London Gazette described John Harry Green as of Finch-lane in the city of London, Bill-Broker, Dealer and chapman.

As a broker operating in the city of London John Harry Green should have to have been licenced.

This is the London Metropolitan Archives leaflet on sworn borkers records

http://217.154.230.218/NR/rdonlyres/2C5CA6A0-6DA3-421F-88E6-7D3EFCEAB3B9/0/15SWORNBROKERSARCHIVES.pdf

To be a broker you had to be a freeman of the City of London which means you were a freeman of a city livery company. The brokers records will give you the connection to the livery company.

'All licensed brokers before 1856 had to be City Freemen and so the City Freedom Archives should also be consulted for personal details (usually including the name, abode and occupation of the broker's father) of brokers during this period.'

The LMA City of Freedom Archives research leaflet

http://217.154.230.218/NR/rdonlyres/3849DBCC-E0D4-4C1F-A26B-53055ABF67EB/0/14CITYFREEDOMARCHIVES.pdf

The LMA research leaflet on livery company apprenticeship records (held at the Guildhall or still with the livery company archives)

http://217.154.230.218/NR/rdonlyres/0B300021-F6C1-4502-BFD9-6358897FCB4E/0/16SEARCHINGFORMEMBERSORTHOSEAPPRENTICEDTOMEMBERSOFCITYOFLONDONLIVERYCOMPANIES.pdf


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Valda

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Re: John Harry/Henry Green
« Reply #8 on: Friday 23 April 10 17:03 BST (UK) »
Hi


Part 2

Returning to Richard L Green. Not a lot of Richard L Greens born within five years of circa 1801 on the IGI in Middlesex (the IGI is of course a far from complete index).

There is one

RICHARD LEE GREEN
Christening:  30 MAY 1798   St Botolph Bishopsgate, London
Father:  JOHN 
Mother:  HARRIET

see LizzieW's post for the baptism of John Harry Green to the same parents

These are their other children's baptisms at the same church (see IGI for full details) or children baptised to a John and Harriet - the surname Green being very common

EDWARD FREDERICK GREEN Christening: 14 JUL 1801 
GEORGE ALFRED GREEN  Christening: 18 JUL 1803
JAMES MORING GREEN  Christening: 13 APR 1805
JOHN GREEN Christening: 11 JUN 1808

slightly worrying there seems to be another John Green.


There is this book entitled

Title Sketches of the war in Greece, in a series of extracts from the private correspondence of P. J. G. with notes by R. L. Green ... and an appendix, etc
Authors Philip James GREEN, Richard Lee GREEN
Published 1827

You can obtain a copy through Amazon or Alibris

Richard Lee Green appears to be the British Vice Consul for Morea

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4lwbAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA283&dq=%22richard+lee+green%22&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&num=100&as_brr=0&cd=9#v=onepage&q=%22richard%20lee%20green%22&f=false

There are other mentions of him in Google books including that he was brother to the Consul General of the Peloponnese Philip Green, though this may be a record which would be to early and Philip is given as Philip John.

The cemetery at Patras

records the burial of Richard Lee Green born 1798 died 1878

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=el&u=http://2gym-patras.ach.sch.gr/1st_LifeSpanArea_gr.htm&ei=nbXRS7_MKqedOMKyhOAN&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CA0Q7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3D1798%2B%2522richard%2Blee%2Bgreen%2522%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rlz%3D1T4HPEA_en-GBGB236GB236

Though he died abroad it might be worth checking to see whether he left a will, particularly if he remained single.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1176.htm


Marriage
4th April 1832 St Pancras Old Church
George Alfred Green Bachelor of ? Bloomsbury
Jane Buckley Dixon Spinster of this parish
Married by licence, both signed
Witnesses Kenneth, Jane and Ann Dixon, R Graham and Philip James Green


Annual Register 1823
At Zante the lady of Philip James Green, esq consul-general, for Morea, a son

There is a Philip J Green (Philip James on his children's baptisms) a merchant aged 54 born London on the 1851 census at Boyne House in Kensington with his wife and children. HO107 1468 folio 770


FO 78/135 Consuls John Cartwright, Henry Salt, Philip James Green, John Barker, Francis Werry, etc. 1825.
FO 78/147 Consuls John Cartwright, Henry Salt, John Barker, Francis Werry, N. W. Werry, Philip James Green. 1826.


Philip James Green's possible death in 1861 from the London Gazette

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/22478/pages/539

and may be something to do with George Alfred

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/22018/pages/2350

George Alfred was staying with his nephew Octavious Green (the son of Philip James) and his wife (born in Greece) and children on the 1881 census in Kingston upon Thames RG11 836 folio 63. On this census and the two previous when he was in Kent he seems to have remarried to a Mary Ellen.



Depending on how many Sophia Beaumonts there are around a Sophia Beaumont baptised a son James on 22nd April 1838 at St Mary Hendon. She was a single woman in the Hendon workhouse. The child was buried 1st June 1838 at the same church aged 3 months from the workhouse.


The connections are all still to prove but something to get started on.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk