Author Topic: Hipwell family of Colmworth Beds  (Read 10469 times)

Offline LegoMum

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Re: Hipwell family of Colmworth Beds
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 18 February 16 11:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi sorry am late joining this conversation only just found it ... Mary Ann Hipwell is my 5 x great grandmother I am in Sydney Australia if anyone would like to be in touch please do .. it would be great to have other researchers to bounce things off.  Hope someone will see this Carmen

Offline johnP-bedford

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Re: Hipwell family of Colmworth Beds
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 18 February 16 16:32 GMT (UK) »
Hello Carmen & welcome to RootsChat....

Have you got a birth/baptism date & place for your Mary Ann Hipwell ? & perhaps know her parents. 
I have doubts about her being a child of George & Eliza circa 1765 as posted by heymissjo in 2010.

My records have that George Hipwell b 1743 and baptised 10 April 1743 and Eliza Hipwell had more children that what you listed. In addition to the Thomas and Gregory you mentioned, I also had that they had the following children (all were baptised except Mary Ann) - Mary Ann 1765

George Hipwell, shoemaker married Eliza Loveding at Gt.Staughton in Feb/Mar 1768 as per banns recorded in the Colmworth parish register & as per the Hunts marriage index. OK they did baptise 10 children at Colmworth between 1768 & 1785 but not a Mary Ann. They did have a daughter Mary in 1775 who was buried in 1784, but why would you have a second daughter named Mary. 

I have the Colmworth PR transcript up to 1812 so if you need anything looked up then let me know.

Regards John   
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
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Offline LegoMum

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Re: Hipwell family of Colmworth Beds
« Reply #20 on: Friday 19 February 16 02:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi thank you John,

I and all the other researchers I've come across have Mary Ann b 1765 Hanover, London to George Hipwell bap 10 April 1743 Colmworth, Bedfordshire, Eng and Eliza unknown married in 1767 Eng.

No baptism or birth record for her ... she gave her age as 26 years at the Old Bailey at her conviction trial in 1790.

I don't know if this is the right parents for Mary Ann I've not been able to find a birth record for her but I am in Australia so not so easy from here, a few other's have the mother different so I don't know who is right it would be great to finally know the truth about my 5 x great grandmother's parents and siblings if she has any !! 

After reading through all these posts I'm having doubts about the connection with George and Eliza !!  Why do they have to be so elusive ha ha ha


Mary Ann and Richard Beale Reynolds had one child together Edward he married Sarah Maria Singleton they had 5 children
Elizabeth - Catherine - Sarah Maria - Hannah and Thomas.

Mary Ann Hipwell married Thomas Alexander Roker Gosper they had 4 children together
Thomas married Mary Humphries they had 11 children
John Thomas married Hannah Beale Reynolds (my line) they had 13 children
Joseph married Ann Marsden they had 11 children
James married Margaret Marsden they had 4 children

I've come across many families who have more than one child name the same especially where one of them dies early the next child of the same sex is named the same as the deceased child.  And even when the child doesn't die I've got a few with children the same name guess they didn't have too much imagination for names back then !!

Are you connected to the Hipwell family ??

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Greetings to you from a hot Sydney !! 

Carmen xx

Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Hipwell family of Colmworth Beds
« Reply #21 on: Friday 19 February 16 09:16 GMT (UK) »
The more prudent trees online show no parents for Mary Ann Hipwell. As there appear to be no records which show her parents, it must be pure speculation to show them as George and Eliza, and which bears no resemblance to the known facts. Mary Ann was born 1764/5 according to her trial and her age at burial. Her birthplace you say was St George Hanover Square, London, but I don't know the source of this. That she lived there in 1790 doesn't mean she was born there. Many people moved into London from the provinces at that time, so she could have been born anywhere. At the age of 26 she might even have been a widow in which case she wouldn't have been a Hipwell at all.

George and Eliza married in Huntingdonshire in 1768 and baptised 10 children in Colmworth Beds. It strikes me as highly unlikely that they would have had a child then waited 3 or 4 years before marrying and producing 10 more children in short order. In any event that child would have been baptised as Loveding, Eliza's maiden name, even if George had admitted to being the father.

Whilst I've seen plenty of cases where a second child is given the same name as an earlier one, it's always been where the younger child had died. I agree with John - I can't recall ever seeing a case where there were two children both living with the same name, although I accept you may have seen some.

You say you have George and Eliza as being her parents. What's your evidence for this, as I can find none? I've seen far too many Ancestry trees where the sheep mentality has taken over, and people have copied other folks' trees, and before you know it a critical mass builds up with people thinking, "well if all those other trees show her parents as George and Eliza it must be right".

I'm not saying categorically that George and Eliza aren't the parents of Mary Ann, but to me it looks to be very unlikely.

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell


Offline LegoMum

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Re: Hipwell family of Colmworth Beds
« Reply #22 on: Friday 19 February 16 09:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi David

I've not added the parents to my ancestry tree just in my notebook as a possibility I was given this info by a fellow researcher but because I couldn't find a birth record for Mary Ann's birth I haven't added it to my tree ... when I came across this thread yesterday I was hoping there may be an answer that someone had a birth record for her ....

Like I said there are a lot of trees and not just on ancestry that have George and Eliza as her parents but there is no record to say that this is correct ... yes I agree there is a sheep mentality of oh look they have it so must be correct but I am searching for the proof of this information so not quite a sheep !! 

Yes it does seem rather odd for George and Eliza to have a child and wait so long to marry and have more children and yes that's true just because she was living in London doesn't mean she was born there I've found a number of relatives living in one place and born in another so that isn't set in stone for me ...

I've only found her connected with Richard Beale Reynolds whom she had her first child with and Thomas AR Gospser who she had a further 4 sons with .... when Mary was arrested she was keeping company with a Benjamin Colburn I've no idea who he is or their relationship !! 

So many questions and not so many answers !! 




Offline johnP-bedford

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Re: Hipwell family of Colmworth Beds
« Reply #23 on: Friday 19 February 16 15:45 GMT (UK) »
When did Mary become Mary Ann ? The Old Bailey trial transcript of 27 Oct 1790 just names her Mary Hipwell as does the write up in the London Times of 28th Oct. Also I can see nowhere there that says she's 26 years of age, where did that come from. She was transported on the 'Mary Ann' ship in January 1791 arriving in New South Wales in July, the ship's manifest just names her Mary Hipwell. Are there any Australia/NSW convict records available that gives more details about her & family.

 
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
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Offline LegoMum

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Re: Hipwell family of Colmworth Beds
« Reply #24 on: Friday 19 February 16 22:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi John

I had wondered that myself ...

The Convict Muster NSW 1806-1849

Name - Hipwell Mary Ann
Vessel - Mary Ann
Year of sentence - 1791
Sentence - 7 years
can't make out the title - Wife of Tho (short for Thomas) Gosport W'force (short for Wilberforce)

On her grave with Thomas it's Mary Ann

Carmen