Author Topic: Jersey against France mid 1700s  (Read 6072 times)

Offline Ringrose

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Jersey against France mid 1700s
« on: Thursday 06 May 10 10:22 BST (UK) »
I have found some ancestors who owned or were master of boats  around 1756. IN all cases the record from a National Archive search says--against France. What was happening between the Channel Islands and France at that time. Any help please.
Thanks
Ringrose
Mann Ringrose Prior( West London)Prior (Halstead Colchester and Sudbury)Ringrose (Northants) Clark(sussex  Bath)Light(Shropshire West London)Barber(Northants)Gaudern (Northants)Piper(Suffolk)Carter (Essex)Nightingale,Stiles,Dunk,Hedgecock(Kent)Mann(south Devon )Le Cronier,Le Quesne,Poingdestre,Esnouf,Le Guyt,Anley.Le Carteret(Jersey)Clark(Bath,Batcombe,and Nyland )
er(essex)Nightingale(kent Sussex)Sutton (sussex)

Offline amazon510

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Re: Jersey against France mid 1700s
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 29 July 10 00:59 BST (UK) »
The Seven Year's War was from 1756 to 1763. 

According to "Jersey in the 18th and 19th Centuries" by A. C. Saunders (published in 1930), there was a lot of privateering by Jersey vessels against the French (England being at war with France), and vice versa.  There was also much fear of a French invasion of the islands.  See pp. 163-167.

In the same source, p. 138 there is also a reference to some disputes between French and Jersey oyster fishermen at that same time.  The first regulations regarding the oyster fishery started in 1755.  Apparently they provoked a riot by oyster fishermen in France.

If you haven't already read it, another great source regarding Channel Island captains and owners is "Jersey Sailing Ships" by John Jean.  It lists lots of vessels, captains and owners by name.  I have a copy of some sections of it, if you can provide me the names you are interested in, I'll look them up.

Jennifer.

Offline Ringrose

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Re: Jersey against France mid 1700s
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 29 July 10 09:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks Jennifer for that interestinginfo. I do know that my 5 times ggrandfather Philip Le Cronier was a privateer  and have found a little on Google books. Are there any Cronier or Le Cronier names mentioned ?
Many thanks for your interest and help.
Ringrose
Mann Ringrose Prior( West London)Prior (Halstead Colchester and Sudbury)Ringrose (Northants) Clark(sussex  Bath)Light(Shropshire West London)Barber(Northants)Gaudern (Northants)Piper(Suffolk)Carter (Essex)Nightingale,Stiles,Dunk,Hedgecock(Kent)Mann(south Devon )Le Cronier,Le Quesne,Poingdestre,Esnouf,Le Guyt,Anley.Le Carteret(Jersey)Clark(Bath,Batcombe,and Nyland )
er(essex)Nightingale(kent Sussex)Sutton (sussex)

Offline amazon510

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Re: Jersey against France mid 1700s
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 29 July 10 14:26 BST (UK) »
P. 33 of Jersey Sailing Ships:

"Capt. Le Cronier of the 'Defiance' returned to the island on 30 June 1757 accompanied by two large prizes which he had taken on their voyage from Bordeaux to America.  'Defiance' sailed again and surprised a Swedish vessel valued at L8000.  Altogether no fewer than nine prizes valued at L486,440 fell to Le Cronier that year."

However when I look at the list of privateering captains, it lists Geroge Le Cronier as the captain of the Defiance from 1756 to 1757, so this might not be your g-grandfather Philip.

Defiance was a 67 ton schooner, owner Daniel Messervy.

The Le Croniers also seem to have been involved in the Newfoundland fishery.  In my own research, I have compiled a list of Jersey vessels that cleared out of Harbour Grace between 1770 and 1794 (source Munn Fonds, Harbour Grace Customs records, Maritime History Archive).  Le Croniers or possible Le Croniers (the handwriting in the document was poor and I was in a rush so you might want to check the source) were as follows:

Peter Le Cronier, 'Good Friends', 1776
Philip le Cromier, 'George', 1791 (Philip also the owner)
Peter le Cremier, 'Good Friends', 1789

Peter le Cronier & Co also owned the 'Reward" which cleared Hr. Grace in 1792, captained by P. Dolbol.  This vessel was registered in Gaspe, so the Le Croniers might also have been involved in the Gaspe fishery.

You should really try to get a look at a copy of 'Jersey Sailing Ships', there are whole chapters on Jersey privateers and the Newfoundland and Gaspe fisheries, and an index at the back of Jersey sea captains and the vessels they sailed on. I only have a copy of certain segments.  The Maritime History Archives at Memorial Univerity of Newfoundland are also a great resource.  http://www.mun.ca/mha/index.php.  I believe the Jersey archives also holds a collection of John Jean's reference notes which might contain more details (I've never seen this collection but would love to some day).

Jennifer.


Offline Ringrose

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Re: Jersey against France mid 1700s
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 05 September 10 20:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Amazon 510
What must you think of me?I know Ive been busy in August but I have only just found your super answer about my Le Cronier ancestors and Jersey Sailing ships. Nothing had come through on my e-mails or messages so Im not sure what happened. Anyway many many thanks and I will try and order a copy of the book from the library.
I know there is something about Philip Le Cronier at the National Archives so I will try and get there too.I also believe he had his own steamship in the 1820s---my gggrandmother was born in Baltimore.
Apologies again
Ringrose
Mann Ringrose Prior( West London)Prior (Halstead Colchester and Sudbury)Ringrose (Northants) Clark(sussex  Bath)Light(Shropshire West London)Barber(Northants)Gaudern (Northants)Piper(Suffolk)Carter (Essex)Nightingale,Stiles,Dunk,Hedgecock(Kent)Mann(south Devon )Le Cronier,Le Quesne,Poingdestre,Esnouf,Le Guyt,Anley.Le Carteret(Jersey)Clark(Bath,Batcombe,and Nyland )
er(essex)Nightingale(kent Sussex)Sutton (sussex)

Offline amazon510

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Re: Jersey against France mid 1700s
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 02 March 13 14:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ringrose, I know it's been a long time since these posts, but I just was looking at a new-to-me website, "War of 1812 Privateers", http://www.1812privateers.org/ and I saw your Philip Le Cromier!

This website lists letters of marque issued for the War of 1812, but it also has a list of letters issues for earlier wars, including the Seven Years War.  In the following file, http://www.1812privateers.org/Great%20Britain/marque1793-1815.pdf, page 25, Philip Le Cronier is listed as the commander of 2 privateering Vessels as follows:

April 1798 - Surprize (a smack)
Jan 1799 - Dolphin (a schooner)

In Jersey Sailing Ships, there is a ship called Surprise listed as a privateering vessel from 1778-94, commanded by Clement le Quesne, owned by Fiott & co.  No mention of the Dolphin.  Also in the same source, it notes that England was at war with France again during that time period.

As an aside, I think Surprize is a fabulous name for a privateer vessel...  French ship, sailing along minding it's own business, then "Surprize! You're being boarded!"  Someone must have had a bit of a sense of humour.   :D

Jennifer.

Offline Ringrose

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Re: Jersey against France mid 1700s
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 02 March 13 14:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi thanks for your interest.Last September we went to Jersey and although The archives weren't much help the Societie Jersiaise spent a lot of time with me and I got a lot of info.I was put in touch with a gentleman who in his 90s had just published a book about people on the high seas.
Philippe Le Cronier occurs in my tree 3 times as great grandfathers.....as3 ,4 and 5 times grandfathers.I managed to get a family tree and a little about privateering.The author of the book spoke to me on th phone and said they would have been quite a wealthy family as the goodies they brought back were shared between the King,Jersey and the family.
Thanks again
Ringrose
Mann Ringrose Prior( West London)Prior (Halstead Colchester and Sudbury)Ringrose (Northants) Clark(sussex  Bath)Light(Shropshire West London)Barber(Northants)Gaudern (Northants)Piper(Suffolk)Carter (Essex)Nightingale,Stiles,Dunk,Hedgecock(Kent)Mann(south Devon )Le Cronier,Le Quesne,Poingdestre,Esnouf,Le Guyt,Anley.Le Carteret(Jersey)Clark(Bath,Batcombe,and Nyland )
er(essex)Nightingale(kent Sussex)Sutton (sussex)

Offline _Noel

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Re: Jersey against France mid 1700s
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 27 August 15 13:27 BST (UK) »
The National Archives have an excellent "Letters of Marque" database HCA26 that should give you further information on some of those who owned and sailed the privateers:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8624