Robert Moore "of Linton" and his supposed Trade Tokens

[Berlin-Bob]

A more negative use of tokens and the like was the truck or the company shop.
This was often used in S. Wales by the Baileys and others in their ironworks.

The truck or company shop was another method of control over the workers, and an extra source of income for the ironmaster. Prices were often 20% higher than in local shops and during the frequent cash flow crisis at the works, goods from the company shop were given to the workers in lieu of wages.

see http://www.thomasgenweb.com/nantyglo_round_towers.html
"NANTYGLO ROUND TOWERS
WHY WERE THE ROUND TOWERS BUILT?"

and

The early shopkeepers in Brynmawr found their trade somewhat restricted by the competition of the Company Shops at Clydach, Llanelly Hill and Nantyglo, and from about 1840 onwards in Brynmawr itself. Although the Truck Acts of 1817 and 1820 made payment in kind illegal, the fact that wages were drawn in money only once in six or eight weeks and also that debt at the Company Shop was recognized as a kind of security for continued employment, made it difficult for workmen to trade elsewhere.

http://www.thomasgenweb.com/brynmawr_history.html

Bob

[Matt R]

Thankyou for those two links Bob

Sounds as if people were only trying to survive, but in the Bailey brother's case and in other cases dotted around the country, maybe to resist an oppression of workforces or workmen.

I have had another quick search on google books, which led me to discover a very short piece on Robert Moore...literally about five or six words but he is mentioned as having the Grocer's Arms (guild) on his particular tokens.

Very interesting!

Matt.

[jbml]

Hello all,

My 10x gt grandfather, Robert Moore, was born 1655 and on some sources such as his will (made 1711, he died 1713) state he was "of Linton", Cambridgeshire. I know he was a grocer and there is a possibility that some so-called "Trade Tokens" were made bearing his name.

Matt

This seems unlikely to me, Matt.

According to Williamson (which is THE work of reference on 17th century trade tokens) the Robert Moore token (Cambridgeshire #145) is a farthing which has, on its obverse, ROBERT MOORE and the Grocers' arms; and on the reverse OF LYNTON . 1667 with the initials R . M. in the field.

If your great x10 grandfather was born in 1655, then he is unlikely to have been the token issuer of 1667, being only 12 years old at the time.

It may well be that the token issuer is his father (your great x11 grandfather), or maybe an uncle.

What strikes me as interesting is that only the initials RM appear on the token. It was far more common for three initials to appear (the third being usually the wife's first initial). So this token issuer MIGHT (but this is merely speculation from a very thin evidence base) have been unmarried (thus an uncle of your great x10 grandfather) or widowed by 1667 (in which case possibly your great x11 grandfather).

It's a pity your token-issuing ancestor was in Cambridgeshire not Bedfordshire. For Bedfordshire, there is Gaunt, Bedfordshire Seventeenth Century Tokens, which includes extensive research in the parish records and probate records for all of the token issuers.

I have searched for all of my known 17th century ancestors in Williamson, and none of them appears to have been a token issuer. I think you are very lucky to have one ... as obtaining one of the tokens issued by an ancestor some 12 generations ago would be a really wonderful, tangible link to your remote family history. I'm jealous.

(Nigel Clarke is the man you want to talk to if you want to try to track down one of your ancestor's tokens: he is the country's leading dealer in 17th century traders' tokens, and has supplied a number of the tokens in my collection, as well as my copy of Gaunt.)

[Usagi]

Hey!

I know this thread is almost 13 years old now, but I came across it while scouring the internet for information. Does anyone know if OP Matt R ever managed to track down a Robert Moore farthing?

While going through a collection of coins I was given as a youngster by a detectorist family member, I stumbled across this token and a few google searches led me to this thread!

[jbml]

That's the Robert Moore farthing, and no mistake!

[Matt R]

Blimey - I've just come back to this after receiving a notification about a reply and I am quite pleasantly surprised!

I had completely forgotten about this thread, hence why I have not responded, so to both jbml and Usagi, I apologise for the silence.

Usagi: it is fantastic to see that you have acquired a Robert Moore token - what a find, especially in knowing it is as old as we believe (1660s!) I'm excited to see one, so thank you for sharing your photo!

jbml: I apologise to you in particular for my seeming ignorance and lack of response. This must have simply passed me by and I have not looked at this branch for many years now. However, in spite of that, I did find Robert's baptism, not in 1655 as estimated but actually in 1646. He was the son of John Moore and I know nothing about John or any other family. However, Robert did not marry until 1682 which would explain why these tokens did not bear the name of a spouse. However, it is still a possibility the tokens were issued by an uncle I suppose! Thank you for your reply and advice, albeit 13 years late!

Admittedly, I'm pleasantly surprised by a return to this thread and might have to dust off the old Moore family tree and taken another look at it now!

Kind regards,
Matt.

[Usagi]

As far as I can tell from info online, Robert Moore only minted farthings for a single year run in 1667 - the coin is stamped with that year too, so it seems to hold true. This would fit nicely in your timeline, too. It's in relatively good condition for it's age, with a few nicks off the edges and some corrosion on the surface, but all the details and type on the faces are nice and clear.

Matt R: I'm tempted to get it appraised and evaluated, but if it's not worth the moon or donating to a museum, would you want it? It'd make for a good story, and serve as a physical link to your heritage!

[jbml]

It's great, isn't it? We family hostorians LIKE old things ... this is probably the only site on teh net where people don't complain if you bring a 13-year old thread back to life.

[Matt R]

It's quite a find and I agree; the coin is in relatively good condition for its age.

It would mean that my Robert minted this coins in the year he was at the age of 21 or 22. It might be the case that his father helped him do this, but he stopped after 1667. I'd be very interested in acquiring the coin itself - I'm happy to pay for it too so please let me know if you have any luck with valuations! This is a great link back to my ancestor so I'd happily negotiate a price