James Cecil

[Kiwicol]

Good to meet you distant cousins
the Len Goodman episode should be shown on Foxtel in Australia soon as they have that series on, just watched JK Rowling, so cant be long to wait.

[Lubricated]

I stumbled accross this thread a few weeks back and found it very, very, useful. My thanks to all contributors.

I am descended from Charles Cecil, son of Charles Cecil and Elizabeth Archer. I found this out several years ago and at the time was given a lot of information about the Cecil tree from various Cousins. I too was told we were descended from Charles Daniel Cecil.

I have been overhauling my tree following it's transfer to a new software package and my realisation that my source notes were in a complete mess. I've a long way to go, having only reached surnames beginning with the letter "C"! The comments here have helped make sure that my tree is accurate; in fact I've removed it from Ancestry, ashamed that I had helped perpetrate errors - a sin I find frustrating in others to say the least.

If anyone has time I would be interested in comments on the following:

1. There was a William Cecil baptised son of William Cecil (weaver) and Judith 8 March 1748/49 Bethnal Green, St Matthew.  I have found no other reference to a William & Judith Cecil. I wondered if it was possible that the father's name of William was a clerical error, and it was really Charles? The birth would sit comfortably between Sarah and George.  We will never know, but I would be interested to hear of any other references to a William & Judith Cecil. As a footnote, there was a William Cecil buried at Bethnal Green, St Matthews, on 11 Apr 1749, quite possibly the same child.

2. Sarah Cecil, daughter of Charles & Judith, appears in at least 100 tress on Ancestry as baptised 17 Jun 1747, but not one has any further information.  What happened to Sarah? I wondered if she died young and found a possible burial on 11 July 1751 in Bethnal Green, St Matthew. At first glance the surname appears to be Croit but I'm convinced the second letter is an "E" making the name CE???.  Anyone think the same? I found no other evidence of a Croit family in the area.

3. Moving down a generation to Charles Cecil and Elizabeth Archer, I was originally told by various Cousins that they had three children:
   Charles bapt Stepney 13 Aug 1776 (who allegedly married Martha Harrison)
   John bapt Bethnal Green 25 Dec 1770
   Elizabeth bapt Bethnal Green 29 Mar 1774
However, I now think they had at least 2 others:
   Elizabeth, bapt Stepney 26 May 1765 recorded as "Thistle", and buried Stepney 29 May 1765 "Cecil"
   Charles, bapt Stepney 21 Feb 1768 recorded as "Thissel"

I haven't found any other evidence of a Thistle family in the area at the time.

It would be unusual to have the 2nd & 3rd child both living and named Charles, so I went looking.  On 23 Nov 1767 a Charles Sissel was buried at Stepney, St Dunstans.  From the information in the Day Book it looks certain that he was under the Age of 2.

So I now think the Charles Cecil who married Martha Harrison on 9 April 1788 was actually the Charles who was baptised in 1768 and not the one baptised in 1766 as I was previously told and as appears on many trees in Ancestry. 

So there appears to have been a repetition of attributing data to the wrong Charles Cecil in two generations! Has anyone else reached the same conclusion?

If anyone reading this is descended from Charles Cecil & Martha Harrison, I have established what happened to Martha and have her death certificate from 1846. Please PM me for details.

[Chrimbold]

I am descended from Charles Cecil and Judith Raby too and I thought for a long time that Charles Cecil and Elizabeth Lumley were Charles' parents mainly because Charles indentures show him as having been born in the parish of St. John the Evangelist Westminster.  Further research has revealed that the Charles Cecil married to Elizabeth Lumley was an Anglican cleric DD at Christ Church Oxford - one of the chaplains ordinary to the king and Rector of Hatfield. Then in Feb. 1732 he was consecrated Bishop of Bristol and transferred to be Bishop of Bangor in 1734. He died in 1737. That being so I think we can safely rule out the connection as the indentures would surely have referred to Charles as Rector of Hatfield or given him the title Rev. but there are still a lot of trees around connecting these 2 families.
If you put up Charles Cecil & Judith Raby on Google search it will take you to Judith's profile on Wikitree, if you then click on Charles you will be able to view the image of his indentures with his fathers name.
I still don't know who 'my' Charles Cecil's father was, only that his name was also Charles Cecil!
Can anyone add to this?
'Chrimbold'

[JACK GEE]

Hello Troops,
 just adding  another angle to the Cecil questions.
I have just had a DNA test done under the World Families under the Gilbert Banner.
It makes a 98% match to Sir Thomas Cecil - 1st Earl of Exeter.
A google search shows that he had 2 successful marriages with a heep of children by the first wife.

Does anyone have any clues on any possible illegitimate children?

Chhers
Jack Gee

[Kiwicol]

That's damned fine Jack
What was the world Families test?
What is your Cecil connection?
I have done Autosomal tests with FamilytreeDNA and AncestryDNA
and uploaded data to Gedmatch.com Kit number for any who have uploaded any DNA to Gedmatch.com is F170975

[wb2f]

To Lubricated:
Am new to RootsChat & not sure how to "find" you to reply (if you are still on this forum) to a post you made ages ago re Charles & Martha.  I too am a descendant and would be interested in the death certificate details you have for Martha Harrison. 
At the time you also queried Sarah?  Did you find anything?  It does seem possible that she died as a baby, but someone does have a Sarah Cecil born 1747 as dying 1841 under her own name! 

[hallmark]

To reply just hit Reply on thread...

Threads merged.

[Lubricated]

Hi Prelli

I have not seen the death certificate but I firmly believe the Sarah Cecil who died in the last quarter of 1841, in her 90's, was the widow of Thomas Cecil who was one of the sons of Charles Cecil and Judhy Raby. Her maiden name was Waterlow, and she and Thomas were married 8 Jan 1775 at St Dunstan, Stepney.

Lubricated

[Kiwicol]

CECIL, SARAH       age 91     Order
GRO Reference: 1841  D Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN  Volume 02  Page 8   Order

1841 England Census  Name: Sarah Cecil  Age: 90  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1751  Gender: Female  Where born: Middlesex, England  Civil Parish: Bethnal Green  Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division) County/Island: Middlesex  Country: England  Street address: Occupation: .  Registration district: Bethnal Green  Sub registration district: Church  Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age  Sarah Cecil 90 Silk Weaver  George Godfrey 35  Elizabeth Godfrey 45  James Broad 13  John Broad 6  Thomas Cecil aged 65 is in same house, next rooms.

The GRO has a trial where a pdf copy can be bought for i think 6 pounds a saving on the certificate, but the only one i sent for was not good enough for them to provide a PDF of.

Maybe one of the Godfreys is the informant and maybe it will say she was a widow of Thomas. but looks like that is her