58th Regiment of Foot

[mcilroynz]

When you say “Bartholomew I McIlroy, born Mullabrach (as spelt in Discharge papers)” are you saying that he was also a soldier?

The NZ Fencible Society website only seems to talk about the Fencibles but I guess it does suggest that there could’ve been a military presence in Otahuhu prior to/other than the Fencibles.

The Margaret who married Thomas Johns is Bartholomew and Ellen’s daughter.  The Margaret who married Arthur Thomas is James and Catherine’s daughter.

I have information for Samuel (children/grandchildren) and for Bartholomew’s son James’ family – so will PM you.

cheers
Rich

[cyntax]

Hi Rich,
Yes he was a soldier of the 58th Rutlandshire Regiment of Foot, and fought
in the Land Wars of NZ.
Bev

[Jaffer]

Hi Richard, thanks for your PM. Geez, loved your questions and statements.
1) Mullabrach, was the spelling in the Discharge book. My Google search showed Mullaghbrack in County Armagh and roughly "down the road" from Belfast.
2) Samuel McIlroy born about 1813, this information received in my original research and is open for correction.
3) Reference to Mullaghbrack, see answer number 1.
4) Regarding Samuel's death, as in answer 2, from original research and is open for correction.
5) At the moment, I cannot locate a place of death for Samuel.
6) You raise a valid question as to whether Bartholomew II went back to Sydney or even Ireland. Honestly, I don't know yet. My process of elimination as I get information and certificates dictates my "final" postings! So everything I do, I'm open to correction.
7) Information about William Francis or Harata or her father Hirini, I've only heard "stories". Most relate to William having "issues" with the bottle! Whether that meant any form of abuse, I don't know and my elder cousins aren't or won't say. All that's mentioned is that life for them was tough, considering at the time, they were breaking-in the country for farming. How William got to the East Coast, we have no information on that.
Ohineakai...as you've discovered, it's at the end of McIlroy Road at Waipiro Bay. A track used to lead to Ohineakai, but erosion over the years, means access is via the beach and usually at low tide or you're climbing scrub covered hills and marshy land. The walk from the end of the road is about 40 minutes, the land has a large flat area and an old cemetery with some existing headstones of extended members of the family. Why they moved is not clear, but most of the family moved further up the hills to areas called Taharora and Te Kiekie. Follow your Google map west-ish and you'll find them. BTW, McIlroy Road was named after McIlroy family who lived at the end of the road, Jim McIlroy, a son of William and Harata and brother of my grandmother Mereana.
9) The Catholic Register I mentioned is actually located on CDRom at Auckland Central Library and is a collection of all the Church records, I think for Otahuhu, births, baptisms, confirmations, marriages and deaths. The entry for Henry Arthur shows surname, First names, year of event, the event, fathers name, mothers name and an ID which I couldn't get an explanantion.

I hope this un-muddies the waters a bit.

Chu.
 

[Jaffer]

Ooops, forgot to mention the Fencibles... when they retired/took their discharge/pension, they were given a plot of land with a "house" on it. The land plots were either at Howick or Otahuhu.
Did you know that some of the McIlroy family were given McElroy spellings?? I found some references to a Samuel and Rose McElroy, who were buried in the Catholic Section of the Symonds Street Cemetery. No details on these and a large number of the graves were exhumed, cremated and re-interred in a mass grave in the cemetery, due to the building of the Northern Motorway. From the Grafton motorway overbridge, follow the fencline for about 50 metres in a straight line along the fence, you'll find a huge bronze memorial with bronze plaques and the names. Any headstones were laid down on the lawn of the mound.

Cheers again,
Chu.

[mcilroynz]

Hi Rich,
Yes he was a soldier of the 58th Rutlandshire Regiment of Foot, and fought
in the Land Wars of NZ.
Bev

That would be Bartholomew II (born c.1823).  Jaffer’s original post indicated that his father Bartholomew I (born c.1800) was also a soldier ...but I suspect not.

Thanks for all your information Jaffer (Chulu?).

My interest in Mullabrach is not so much the spelling (Mullaghbrack on the map, Mullabrack in local useage etc) but the source of your information that Bartholomew I was born there.  If both he and his son Bartholomew II were born there then this would suggest that the family had a relatively long association with the area.

Ooops, forgot to mention the Fencibles... when they retired/took their discharge/pension, they were given a plot of land with a "house" on it. The land plots were either at Howick or Otahuhu.

I don’t have any information to suggest that Bartholomew II was a Fencible.

The Hughes book indicates that there *was* a military presence in Otahuhu (prior to/other than the Fencibles) which could explain why the McIlroys had a long association with that area also.  For example, when the 18th Regiment disembarked in Auckland they went straight to “Otahuhu camp”, a number of regiments (14th, 43rd 70th etc) seem to have been based at Otahuhu at various times or had detachments based there, almost all of the 68th who took their leave in NZ were discharged at Otahuhu etc etc.

The Hughes book simply says that Bartholomew II was “Discharged with Gratuity” – which I would have thought was some kind of monetary payment.

The muster books would probably tell us whether Bartholomew returned to Sydney in 1846 with the rest of the 58th or remained here in NZ.

We should probably return this thread to its original 58th Regiment of Foot status – on that note 58th related websites (mainly pertaining to NZ) which may be of interest to others include: A Soldiers Life http://www.benner.org.nz/index.php/stories/interesting-stories/130-a-soldiers-life; Wargaming the First Maori War (!!) http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/Default.aspx?tabid=292&art_id=2166 – has info on the campaigns; and of course 58th Foot Rutlandshire Regiment http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/58thfoot.htm
 
Thanks again to everyone for their input.

[Jaffer]

Hi ya Richard, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
On my current mission, I'm hoping the weather will be good enough for a visit to Ohineakai. I've been to Akuaku and it's a truly great walk. Ohineakai is a little bit further "up-the-hill". The family do "walks" every so often, just to cover the ground our ancestors covered, so, hopefully, I'll be doing that before I head back to Australia.
You asked the question about how William and Harata could have possibly met, and I think I might have found a possible answer for that, today in the Gisborne library. A look at the Akuaku native school registration records show that Harata attended this school. In the listings, it states:
Date of admission or re-admission: 1 February 1886, parent or guardian: Hirini Pehu. Date of Birth: 14 October 1874.
Last day of attendance: 27 January 1888. And a curious title, Destination: Kennedys Bay. Now, I know the whanau group we belong to is called Whanau a Rakairoa. We have a connection with Maori at Kennedy Bay (on the Coromandel) when trading was going on between the EAst Coast and Auckland. I haven't connected anything with Coromandel YET, but  the McIlroy family were working either as blacksmiths or miners on the Coromandel and it's POSSIBLE that Harata met William Francis, under these circumstances.
Unfortunately, I'm still getting feedback from the elder family members that William Francis DID have issues with the bottle, and at times had taken to "abusing" Harata. Rumours are still doing the rounds that the elder sons of Harata and William Francis were more than willing to "bash" the old man.
Anyway, that's all part of our history at this end of the McIlroy world, and I'm taking the good with the bad and the ugly.
Well, after New Years day, I'll be heading up the East Coast to continue the chase and head back to Australia on the 23rd of January. When I get back, I'll update ALL my records and will scan and email my results to you.
In the meantime, enjoy the fruits of the research, and yes, you WILL walk through quite a lot of cemeteries, but it's part of the journey. Have a magic New Year, and keep in touch.
Sincerely your relation,
Chulu Fox...aka Jaffer.

[valmai3]

Sergeant James Noakes was my Ggrandfather. He was born 1805 in Hastings, Sussex Eng.  In 1872 aged 17 he joined the 58th Regiment of Foot at Chatham Barracks, Maidstone, Kent.  In 1834 while posted at Fermoy Barracks in Cork, Ireland, he married Mary Ann Thornhill. At no time was he posted to India.  Postings included 1826 Waterford Ireland - 1834, Cork Ireland - 1840, Portsmouth England - 1841 Scotland and Dublin Ireland. In 1844 he departed Woolwich England as part of the guard aboard the Convict Ship 'Equestrian' bound for Tasmania and Sydney Australia.  Upon arrival in 1844 he spent 92 days as a guard on Norfolk Island and from there he was dispatched to the Bay of Islands, New Zealand where he took part in the Maori Wars.  In 1846 he was discharged (Chelsea Pensioner) and sailed for Australia on the barque 'Slains Castle'.  He settled in West Maitland, NSW where he died 25 Jan. 1852.  Children:  John Noakes b. 1836 Gosport, Hampshire, England d. 1912 Granville NSW Aust.  Three children died in infancy. Mary Ann Noakes b.1841 Dublin Ireland d. 1925 Ashfield NSW Aust. James Equestrian Noakes b. 1844 on Convict ship 'Equestrian' d. 1905  Qld. Aust.  Thomas SlainsCastle Noakes b. 1845 returning from Maori Wars on barque 'Slains Castle' d. 1908 Tamworth NSW Aust. George Noakes b. 1848 Maitland NSW Aust. d. 1917 Qld. Aust.

[clemens]

I wonder if anyone has advice on how to find out exactly where the 58th regiment of foot was, in the interval between coming back from Ceylon in 1839, and going out to New South Wales in 1843?

They are said to be waiting in Gosport for transport to Cork, in Feb 1840. But then they are sailed from Gosport to Glasgow to replace the 78th (?) Reg, in July 1840.

Are they then in Glasgow until shipped out to Australia and later NZ?

And is anyone able to point to which barracks they were in at Gosport? They are in Forton Barracks there in 1836 (when they are also in Ceylon, so perhaps that is just a small group or people from its Depot?) But they are not there in 1840 according to the website on Forton Barracks.

But as you can see I am very interested in the regiments exact location, particularly in the first half of 1840. (it is a girl meets boy(Ensign) affair :-) 

[valmai3]

My abbreviated records - I have:

1805 Born James Noakes (Serg.) Sussex England.
1822 Enlisted 58th Reg. Maidstone Kent England (did not go to India)
1834 Fermoy Barracks Ireland - married Mary Ann Thornhill.
1836 Son John was born Gosport Hampshire England (Military Barracks associated with Navy)
1840 Transported to Glasgow Scotland on HMS Sapphire and HMS Athol
1841 Posted to Dublin Ireland - daughter was born.
1844 20 Jan.  Departed Woolwich England as guard (with family) on board Convict ship 'Equestrian' bound for Tasmania and N.SW. Australia.
1844 90 days on Norfolk Island
1845 Maori Wars Bay of Islands New Zealand
1846 Discharged returned to Australia - Chelsea Pensioner.  1852 Died.
AFTER 1859 58TH REGIMENT RETURNED TO FARNBOROUGH ENGLAND AND THEN TO BELFAST IRELAND.  THEY THEN RETURNED TO INDIA.

Someone asked what did James do? It has been suggested by relative married into Military family that at such a young age (17 years) he may have been assigned as servant to high ranking officer (looking after his clothes, horses etc.).  On 17th Dec 1836, acting corporal James Noakes applied to join the police force - dhbe/DH/B/136/60 East Sussex records.  This application was accompanied by endorsed testimonials (25 April 1836) by Willoughby Cotton Major General commanding Western District so there may be some truth in it. (Unfortunately he wasn't tall enough - 6ft).  Also his discharge papers were signed by G. Kirby Horseguards 1847. Of course as a Sergeant he would have trained recruits.