A George McCann

[gaffy]

Might be nothing, but note that one of the witnesses to the marriage of Edward McCann and Teresa Hamill in St. Peter's RC Church Belfast on 15 July 1871 was an Anne Cambridge, a name that wouldn't have been too thick on the ground generally across the years (eg. search the later 1901 & 1911 Ireland censuses for a sense of how relatively uncommon). 

Fast forward 10 years, to 14 July 1881 - again in St. Peter's RC Church Belfast  - when a Patrick McCann married Mary Hughes. While I can't see a civil registration for this marriage, a transcript of the church record gives Patrick's parents as George and Mary McCann and a comment further states that his parents were from County Armagh.  Interestingly, one of the witnesses was an Anne Cambridge.

Dispensation was sought / given, Mary Hughes' parents' names weren't listed but stated to be from Portadown, County Armagh, the address given for both bride and groom was 13 Hatton Street (?) Belfast and the other witness was a Michael Barry.

There are a number of Drumcree RC parish baptisms for parents called George McCann and Mary Lappin, including this one for a son Patrick on 8 July 1847 (right page, near bottom):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632568#page/20/mode/1up

Other baptisms include George in 1850, Rose in 1852, Elizabeth in 1855, but I can't see one for an Edward.

[gaffy]

... Fast forward 10 years, to 14 July 1881 - again in St. Peter's RC Church Belfast  - when a Patrick McCann married Mary Hughes. While I can't see a civil registration for this marriage, a transcript of the church record gives Patrick's parents as George and Mary McCann and a comment further states that his parents were from County Armagh.  Interestingly, one of the witnesses was an Anne Cambridge.

Dispensation was sought / given, Mary's parents' names weren't listed but were stated in a comment to be from Portadown, County Armagh, the address given for both bride and groom was 13 Hatton Street (?) Belfast and the other witness was a Michael Barry ...

The address in the above record of marriage on 14 July 1881 was bugging me and I started to suspect mistranscription, since I couldn't find such a street name in contemporary street directories.  Then I noticed that Edward McCann and Teresa Hamill had a daughter Mary only a month or so earlier on 2 June 1881 at 13 Eton Street:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02832/2038335.pdf

Was 'Hatton' Street = Eton (a.k.a. Eaton) Street?  Looks like a definite maybe.

Edited to add: BTW, it seems that Patrick McCann and Mary Hughes then moved to Scotland and had a family, for example, daughter Maria was born on 4 September 1882 in Partick, significantly, her birth record states that parents Patrick McCann and Mary Hughes were married in Belfast, Ireland on 14 July 1881, which ties them nicely back to the St. Peter's RC Church marriage record. When Patrick died in 1929, the death registration stated the names of his parents (reported by the informant, his son Henry McCann) as George McCann, farmer and Mary Lappin, which ties him nicely back to the previously posted Drumcree RC parish baptism.  All things considered and notwithstanding the absence thus far of a baptism record for Edward McCann, it is a reasonable piece of conjecture that Patrick and Edward were brothers. 

[mackers]

Gaffy fantastic work I only came across the Mary sic (Lappan ) Lappin connection a few days ago myself but like you I couldn't find an Edward but that said the date fits for Edward back dating his age when he died. Also there is a Scottish connection in that Edward and Teresa went to Glasgow for a time where they lost their 3 children to whooping cough. Their addresses in Glasgow were 88 Centre St and King St. So it could be the case he went on or near the same time as Patrick? Then you came up with the Anne Cambridge connection which I will now look further into as she was indeed a witness to both Patrick and Edward's weddings. Magic stuff

As for Eton Street Edward live in about 3 different streets that were within a very short distance of it. So it is no doubt them.

Thank you very much I am at last on a road to finding out for certain about them.

Best regards

Mack

[gaffy]

Edward and Teresa McCann were in Glasgow and had children there in the 1870s (as per Reply #2 -  one of the birth records I've seen confirms that it was definitely the correct couple by identifying their 1871 Belfast marriage details), but the couple were back in Belfast by May 1879 for the birth of a daughter:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02922/2070684.pdf

As far as 13 Eton Street Belfast is concerned, Edward and Teresa were there until at least March 1882, according to the deaths of 2 of their children on the 3rd and 24th of that month:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06416/4842774.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06416/4842779.pdf

But they had moved to another address nearby by December 1882 (Teresa recorded as 'Hammond'):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02752/2011082.pdf

BTW, an 1873 Belfast newspaper reference indicates that someone with the name of Ann Cambridge was the caretaker of St. Peter's RC Church in Belfast, so maybe a family friend through the church? Or maybe as caretaker she witnessed multiple marriages? 

I would be curious to see the original St. Peter's register entry for the marriage of Patrick McCann and Mary Hughes on 14 July 1881, just to see what has been transcribed as 'Hatton' Street actually looked like.  Frustratingly, the NLI online coverage stops short of that date (additionally frustrating that there appears to be no civil record). A transcription for the St. Peter's baptism of Edward and Teresa (Hamill) McCann's daughter Mary (civil registration of birth on 2 June 1881 posted at Reply #19 above) showed their address as 13 'Easton' Street, so I imagine the handwriting was difficult or there was a struggle in identifying / spelling the street name.  Rev. M. O'Malley was the priest for both events.   

Edited to add:  Frustrating too that Drumcree RC parish records only start from 1844 (corroborated by the PRONI Guide To Church Records, also, baptisms are blank / missing in several months of 1845).  If Edward's reported age of 52 at death in 1897 was even slightly understated, that may explain the unavailability of a baptism, likewise his parent's marriage may simply predate what's available.

[gaffy]

FamilySearch has a record showing an Elizabeth Sullivan of 252 Richard Avenue, Brooklyn, New York buried in Holy Cross Cemetery on 17 July 1924, she was  a widow born in Ireland c.1860, the only reason I mention it is that her reported parents were transcribed as 'George W. Cann' and 'Mary Lappins' of Ireland.

[mackers]

Again many thanks. Gaffy. They were actually back in Belfast in 1877 when their son Francis was born on the 11th of May 1877 Belfast Workhouse although he is registered firstly as unknown male.

And I think Anne Cambridge was registering by way of her work duties which is disappointing for me. And as you point out the registering for Edward was before the date needed. 

As for the 3 kids in Scotland George died 14-1-1873. Patrick died 15-1-1873. Mary died 10-12-1875.

Sadly as you point out it's been a case of pipped to the post vis-a-vis dates for registering of some of the events which is really frustrating. Added to this in my case was the fact I mentioned about the vast difference when I stated out many years ago that I found in both Teresa's and her son Francis death certs both out by 10 years in that Francis said 45 when he was 55 and Teresa's said 66 when she was at least 76???

That said I still think now that the Mary Lappin connection is strong. So thank you once more gaffy for your time and efforts much appreciated I can tell you.

Just to add that Francis went on to fight in the Boer War and later WW1 which he survived, just. And that is why I am here today. Life is a thread.

P.S.Possible rich relations in America? What next?

[gaffy]

It's just a shame there seems to be no civil record for the 1881 marriage of Patrick McCann and Mary Hughes, a nice clear '13 Eton Street' as residence would have sealed the deal on this.  Maybe fresh eyes will find it. As it is, 2 McCann marriages in the same church with parents listed as George and Mary McCann from County Armagh and a possible linkage between the two couples via a '13 Hatton Street' reference is intriguing, my gut feels that the balance of probability is on them being brothers, but it is inconclusive.

BTW, a Francis McCann was born in Tradeston, Glasgow on 10 August 1875 to parents Edward McCann (joiner labourer) and Teresa Hamill, the birth record states that the parents were married on 15 July 1871 in Belfast.

[mackers]

It's just a shame there seems to be no civil record for the 1881 marriage of Patrick McCann and Mary Hughes, a nice clear '13 Eton Street' as residence would have sealed the deal on this.  Maybe fresh eyes will find it. As it is, 2 McCann marriages in the same church with parents listed as George and Mary McCann from County Armagh and a possible linkage between the two couples via a '13 Hatton Street' reference is intriguing, my gut feels that the balance of probability is on them being brothers, but it is inconclusive.

BTW, a Francis McCann was born in Tradeston, Glasgow on 10 August 1875 to parents Edward McCann (joiner labourer) and Teresa Hamill, the birth record states that the parents were married on 15 July 1871 in Belfast.

Now another mystery solved. I was under the impression that Francis was born in Belfast so who was the male born 11th May 1877? As the unknown male had the word Fravos inserted, which I never was able to find out the meaning to, even asked a Latin expert about it got no explanation? Added to which 1911 Census Francis is stated as born in Glasgow so that clears that up.

regards

Mack

[gaffy]

... Now another mystery solved. I was under the impression that Francis was born in Belfast so who was the male born 11th May 1877? As the unknown male had the word Fravos inserted, which I never was able to find out the meaning to, even asked a Latin expert about it got no explanation? Added to which 1911 Census Francis is stated as born in Glasgow so that clears that up.

regards

Mack

I don't think that the following male born 11th May 1877 was a child of Edward McCann and Teresa Hamill at all, there was no mention of a father and the word 'formerly' under mother's details was struck out, the hallmarks of an illegitimate child to someone with the maiden name Theresa McCann: 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03014/2104430.pdf