Author Topic: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian  (Read 5838 times)

Online Rosinish

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Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« on: Saturday 19 June 10 17:49 BST (UK) »
Looking for descendants of John Glen (c1830 - 1864) & Ann Johnston. They had 1 son Archibald c1856 but were there others? I have been unable to locate a birth certificate for him nor a death certificate but have his marriage to Janet Brown 13 Feb 1880. I have no record of a marriage for his parents John & Ann although John's death cert. says married to Ann Johnston. I have no death record for her either. Is it possible that Ann may have been her middle name? Does anyone know who John's parents were as his death cert. was signed by a relative who didn't have they details.

Thanks,

Anne.
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

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Offline apanderson

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Re: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 19 June 10 19:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Anne, welcome to Rootshat!

I had a wee look on the 1871 Census and living at Corbiehall, Bo'ness were:

James Glen, Head, age 17, born c1854, Occupation 'Bailewy' Horse Driver (Railway?)
Helen Glen, Sister, age 15, born c1856, Occupation House Keeper
Archibald Glen, Brother, aged 13, born c1858, Occupation Waggon Greaser
All born Bo'ness

(Also a Robert Reid, Half Cousin, age 5, born c1866, Occupation Scholar, born Shotts, Lanarkshire)

I looked to see if I could find them in 1861, but that's proving to be easier said than done!

At least you now know that Archibald had at least one brother and one sister!!† ;D

Anne

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Offline indyblue

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Re: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 02 October 11 02:39 BST (UK) »
Hello There,

I have a marriage of John Menzies and Jane Beveridge on 08/10/1872 in Glasgow. John was my great grandfather. On the marriage entry John's parents were listed as John Menzies; a coal miner and deceased. John's mother was listed as Ann Menzies; previously Glen; M.S. Johnston also deceased.
Not to sure as to whether there is a connection or not, but I have been unable to find the marriage of John Menzies senior.

Kind Regards,

Steve

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Re: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 02 October 11 12:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve,
 
Great to hear from you. This is most certainly the same Ann Johnston & John is on the 1851 census on ancestry aged 1yr but the spelling is Mingus.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1851Scotland&indiv=try&h=2880057

There is also a William Main which may be an error & his name may well be Menzies? He is somewhat younger than Ann though. Ann was 34yrs & William 23yrs.

It would be great to compare notes so I will PM you with my email as I have the marriage cert. for Ann & John in 1862 which was after your John was born.

Ann seems to have had 6 children, 3 of which are under the name Glen - James, Helen & Archibald but I have been to every corner for their births to no avail so it's an ongoing feat. I am of the opinion that John Glen was their step-father. The other 3 kids are: Charles Grant, George Brown & your John Menzies.
I don't have any of the birth records but there was a John Reid (half cousin) on a census. I have his birth cert. as I was trying to find the connection but again to no avail. His father was Robert & his mother Marion Sutton/Hutton? - the writing is so hard to read that I can't make out his mother's maiden name yet for sure. Does the name Reid feature in your tree?

There is also a Richard Grant (cousin-in-law) who registered John Glen's death but I don't know yet where he ties in but would imagine he's related to Ann's son Charles?

Regards,

Anne.
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 02 October 11 17:00 BST (UK) »
Hi All

Welcome to RootsChat, Steve  :) Anne, Steve needs a couple more posts before the private message service (PMs) is activated.

From the 1851 census posted and then the 1871 entry, I think this is 1861:

John Grant 40, labourer b. Edinburgh
Ann Grant 42
Chas Grant 20
George Grant 18
John Grant 12
James Grant 10
Helen Grant 8
Archibald Grant 6
Elizabeth Grant 1

Address: 34 Corbiehall, Bo'ness

Can't say I am getting my head round all the different surnames going around as yet!

Anne, if you are having problems reading anything off the images that you are viewing on SP, you can contact them at any time and they will send you an enhanced image for the section you are having a problem with - they are very good at responding to this type of issue. www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=1210

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 04 October 11 02:27 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve & Monica,

Many thanks for your replies as things are becoming a bit more obvious with the name variations which had me wondering for a while if I was on the right track?

As you can see there are so many different names itís hard to tell what their proper names were? None are listed as step-son/daughter by John Grant which is the reason I discounted the 1861 census initially.

Marriage 1

Ann Johnston & Charles Grant married 03 Oct 1831

Ann Johnston b 07 Oct 1816 - Bet. 1864 - 1872 (Ann was deceased on daughter helen's marriage cert. in 1862. I can't find a death record for Ann to date.
Charles Grant b c1806 - 06 Nov 1840

(If I have the correct Charles as thereís no indication of him being Single/Widowed/Married, his wifeís name or parentís names? Ė Inconclusive!

Son Charles b c1840 which ties in with all the census records listed but 9yrs from marriage date for Charles who seems to be an only son seems a bit odd.

It would tie in with the Widow Grant on 1841 census Ė inconclusive.

Son Charles b c1840 which ties in with all the census records listed.

Marriage 2

Ann Johnston & John Glendinning married 31 Dec 1862 (Ann was a widow & John single)

John Glendinning b c 1830 - 11 Apr 1864 (died less than 2yrs into their marriage) & his name is recorded as Glen on his death certificate.

From 1840 (death of Charles) to 1862 (marriage to John Glendinning) there are 5 children born with surnames recorded as Brown, Menzies (Mingus on census) & Glen yet later they all seem to be under the name Grant.

However, I have not been able to trace the births for any so far as my main interest was the Glen(dinning) line prior to discovering that there were no children born to Ann Johnston & John Glen named James, Helen & Archibald although Helen married by the name Glen & witnesses were Thomas Grant & John Menzies.

Iím wondering if some of these are Annís step/fostered/adopted children?

If anyone can shed any light on this Jigsaw/Rubikís Cube/Spaghetti Junction, Iíd love to hear from them as itís a real enigma!

I had put this lot onto the back burner until recently as Iíd spent so much money & no results.

These census records show the name variations but seem to tie in with ages/dates give or take a few yrs which was the norm then.

            1841         
                     
                  
Name   S/name      Born    Parish   Address   Age   Birth
                     
Christian   Grant      W/Loth   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   35   1806
Widow   Grant      W/Loth   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   25   1816
Charles   Grant      W/Loth   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   9 Mo   1840
Margaret   Grant      W/Loth   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   16   1825
                     
            1851         
                     
Ann   Grant   Head   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   34   1817
Charles   Grant   Son   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   10   1841
George   Brown   Son   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   5   1846
John   Mingus   Son   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   1   1850
William   Main   Lodger   Fife   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   23   1828

            



         
            1861         
                     
John   Grant   Head   Ed/burgh   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   40   1821
Ann   Grant   Wife   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   42   1819
Chas   Grant   Son   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   20   1841
George   Grant   Son   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   18   1843
John   Grant   Son   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   12   1849
James   Grant   Son   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   10   1851
Helen   Grant   Dau   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   8   1853
Archibald   Grant   Son   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   6   1855
Elizabeth   Grant   Dau   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   34 Corb/hall   1   1860
                     
            1871         
                     
James   Glen   Head   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   17   1854
Helen   Glen   Sister   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   15   1856
Archibald   Glen   Brother   Bo'ness   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   13   1858
                     
Robert   Reid   Ĺ Cousin   Shotts   Bo'ness   Corb/hall   5   1866

Regards & looking forward to a result of some sort eventually,

Anne.
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 04 October 11 13:31 BST (UK) »
Just adding some additonal info, in case you haven't come across it. From on line family tree (A/try), son George BROWN born c. 1845 showing as having married firstly a Margaret Hamilton in 1866 in Bo'ness. Father a George Brown, miner and mother Ann Johnston (who still is given as alive).

Wonder whether one of the witnesses, a Helen BROWN is AKA Grant/Glen etc...

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline indyblue

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Re: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 08 October 11 11:43 BST (UK) »
To Anne & Monica; thank you very much for your input; it was really appreciated. Nevertheless I am still a fair bit confused; mind you that is not very hard. It seems John Menzies (my great grandfather) who married Jane Beveridge on 08/10/1872 was a witness at Helen Glen's marriage to Robert Robertson on 10/06/1872. Both John Menzies and Helen Glen had the same mother on both marriage certificates; none other than Ann Glen M.S Johnston (deceased)

It may appear that John Menzies (senior) did marry Ann Glen after John Glen died; but again I cannot for the life of me find any record of this marriage.
But what really confuses me is that John Menzies (junior) name was actually John Grant Menzies and again cannot find any record of this.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Offline indyblue

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Re: Glen of Bo'ness, Linlithgow, West Lothian
« Reply #8 on: Friday 04 March 16 00:17 GMT (UK) »
Hello it's Steve here again after some time away.
I'm still knocking my head against a brick wall trying to find out about John Menzies and Ann Glen.
John Menzies (born C1852) birth details and John Menzies (b C1830) Birth and marriage details are proving very hard to find. As far as Ann Glen is concerned; I know her maiden name was Johnston and that she married a few times. I have however; uncovered some information about Robert Reid who was John Menzies Jr cousin. Robert's father (also called Robert) was born in America according to Ancestry. Not sure when he arrived in Scotland though. Maybe John Menzies Sr was born in America. I've heard that Callendar House in Falkirk is the place to visit to find out about births out of wedlock; I think this has to be my next option. It just so happens that I will be visiting the UK in April/May this year so I will definitely pay it a visit.
To Anne; I'm sorry but I've lost your details (computer failure) which is the reason for my lack of correspondence.

Kind Regards,

Steve