Shortall - Sir Patrick

[aghadowey]

7 May 1871 St. Andrew's (R.C.), Dublin: James SHORTALL of 33 Clarendon St., son of Patrick, married Marcella DUNNE of 38 King St., daughter of Matthew Dunne.
Also- son Patrick Matthew bapt. 1872, son James Francis bapt. 1875

See www.irishgenealogy.ie   

[aghadowey]

See that James and Marcella, etc. already mentioned earlier in thread-

My partner (in Ireland) is the grandson of Matthew Shortall brother of Sir Patrick Shortall.  Their parents were James Shortall and Marcella Dunne.  I am trying to trace either their father's or their mothers birthplace.  I think their father was from Kilkenny.  Anyone any information.  To get birth certs of parents we need parish in Ireland where born. 
I have details of James and Marcell's marraige if interested.

... I know that Sir Patrick Shortall had a brother, John Francis, and architect and member of the RIAI.  He was born 1889 and died 1946.  I was not aware of any other sibling, but that certainly does not exclude one.  In fact it opens up another avenue to be explored.
Certainly I would be interested in John and Marcella as they are also the parent of Sir Patrick and therefore link indirectly to my family.

[DubbLinn]

Zotan,
could you PM me the location details of the grave in Glasnevin? I will go to the cemetry and get more information on who is interred there. From the photo I can't make out for sure as to the date of Sir Pats mothers death, being either 1916 or 1915?

aghadowey,
I believe Marcella Shortall at 42 York St. is Sir Pats mother. The only thing is she is 54yrs old in the 1911 census and 45yrs in the 1901 census, this puts her birth date in 1856/57. This does not tally with the death cert info, being born 1851? Any ideas?

[Xotan]

Sorry Dubblinn et al.

I have the advantage of being recently at the grave, so the inscription seems fairly clear to me, whereas I have no doubt it is anything but to others.  Here is the Inscription:

"Erected by Sir Patrick Shortall in memory of his beloved wife MRY (Polly) who departed this life 20th May 1914, May she rest in peace, Also in memoryof his beloved mother who departed this lifeon 13th Novr 1916 (?).  Sir Patrick Shortalldied 27th June 1925

And his son James Shortall died 19th(?) Oct 1931."

The grave reference/location is TH 33.5  ST PATRICK'S

Enter the main gate and turn left along an inner path (so that you can see taller buildings outside) until you arrive level with a red brick house on the road outside the wall.  About this point you will see TH on the inside of the wall.  It is then simply a matter of counting the graves from the wall until you reach the Shortall memorial.  It is partially obscured by a bush, but still quite visible and easy to locate.

Beware the computer printout from Glasnevin.  It gave me only one name - that of Polly.  But as is evident, there are others there as well.

Pat's mother's year of death seems more like 1915 to me.  I took two shots, and certainly the top of the final figure seems parallel to the line of writing, whereas a 6 would show a curve.  This is more evident on one shot than on the other.  Nevertheless, it is something that should be checked out.  I was short of time and, in truth, more interested in Polly and Pat than any of the others.  If you do check it out, please post it.  Sorry for being less than thorough.

[aghadowey]

The date for Sir Patrick's mother's death looked like 1915 in the photo (it was the first part of the inscription that was difficult to read).
I wouldn't worry too much about Marcella Shortall's age varying from census to census to death registration.

[Xotan]

Yes indeed, Aghadowney.  I agree.  An exact year of birth seems not to have been really important until perhaps the the latter quarter of the 19th century, and even then, it would apply only to those born from then on.

Dubblinn,

I think you would find it an interesting experience to visit Glasnevin, if you can make the time.  Be aware, though, that it is no longer possible to bring a car into the place - understandable as there are lots of works going on and many pathways are closed off.  The reception building/museum also has a restaurant where the food was excellent.  I was able to sit outside and eat as it was a really lovely day.  Sadly I didn't have enough time to visit the museum, but that will be a pleasure for my next trip to Ireland.

Also, be aware that Dublin City Council is a charging for parking on the Finglas Road.  This is relatively new.  I found parking there considerably more expensive than here in France.  Cash-sucking vampires in DCC at work, no doubt!

[DubbLinn]

I have just come from a visit to Sir Patricks grave in Glasnevin. I made an enquiry at reception as to who was interred in TH 33.5, Section St. Brigids. The following is taken from the register:

Mary Shortall, Age:42 of 47 Hardwicke St. Died: 20/05/1914. Funeral on 22/05/1914.
Marcella Shortall, Age:64. of 42 York St. Died: 13/11/1915. Funeral on 14/11/1915.
Patrick Shortall, Age:56. of 66 St. Laurences Road. Died: 27/06/1925. Funeral on 30/06/1925.

These are all the names registered at that grave, i.e. TH33.5.
The receptionist did say that TH34 was also connected to TH33.5 but could not say as to why? One other piece of information is the name O'Reilly are connected with TH34.
This additional information and the name O'Reilly mean nothing to me as I never heard the name mentioned in connection with any of the Shortalls.
Also, according to the inscription on Sir Pat's headstone James Shortall is buried there, but there is no mention of him on the register? puzzling indeed.
Frank

[aghadowey]

Also, according to the inscription on Sir Pat's headstone James Shortall is buried there, but there is no mention of him on the register? puzzling indeed.

The gravestone inscription does not say the people listed are buried there. I can't see a death registration for son James Shortall in civil index (perhaps someone else could check in case I've missed it) but it's possible James died and was buried elsewhere.

[Kilrory]

Good morning all,
I just chanced on this thread. I am interested in Shortall family history for some time, primarily in eastern Laois but have collected lots of Shortall information from various places. Sir Patrick Shortall attracted my attention some years ago because of our shared name and his title. A lot of the info I have has already been included in the thread but I include some extra snippets.

Wife Mary (Polly) died at her residence 20 May 1914.

Freemans Journal Sat May 23 1914 - Report of the funeral of Mrs. Shortall, wife of Patrick Shortall TC.
Mourners - Patrick Shortall. Masters James, Patrick, Dermot and Frank sons.
Messrs Patrick Coyle sen father and Patk Coyle brother.
James, Matthew, Barry and John Shortall and Peter Monks PLG brothers in law.
Wreath from Rotunda Ward Branch UIL to Councillor Patrick Shortall

Will : Letters of Administration granted to Patrick Shortall on 27 October 1914. Value £250.

Glasnevin Records    Garden PE 180
Mary Shortall 17 Mountjoy Square, Dublin
Catholic. Carpenter’s wife. Died 16 October 1918 age 28. Pneumonia.
Informant – Nicholas Irwin, 22B Nicholas St., Dublin

Henry Shortall, 17 Mountjoy Square, Dublin
Catholic. Carpenter.  Widower. Died 28 October 1918 age 29. Mater M. Hospital. Pneumonia.
Informant – Nicholas Irwin, 22B Nicholas St., Dublin

Irish Times Archives
Death Notices – October 28 1918 at Mater Hospital of pneumonia following influenza Harry 3rd eldest son of the late James Shortall of Kilkenny and late Marcella Shortall of 43 York Street and beloved brother of Sir Patrick Shortall – deeply regretted by his sister and brother. RIP

Election December 1918
Clontarf Parliamentary Division: Richard J Mulcahy (Sinn Fein)      5974
                                                  Sir Patrick Shortall (Nationalist)   3228
Thom’s Irish Who’s Who  1923
SHORTALL: Sir Patrick Knt (1916)
High Sheriff of City of Dublin 1915. T.C.. Member Royal Institute of Public Health.
Eldest son of the late James Shortall, Kilkenny. Bo 1872.
m.    Mary eldest dau. of late P. Coyle Dublin.
Res. 65 St. Laurence Rd., Dublin.

Glasnevin Cemetery: St. Brigid’s section - TH 33.5 , 34 St. Patrick’s - 7 burials in plot.
Erected by Sir Patrick Shortall in memory of his beloved wife Mary (Polly) who departed this life on 20 May 1914. May she rest in peace. (Glasnevin records –  47 Hardwicke St., Dublin. Age 42. Cancer.)
Also in memory of his beloved mother who departed this life on 13th  Nov 1915. (Glasnevin records – 42 York St., Dublin. Age 64.)
 Sir Patrick Shortall died 27th June 1925 and his son James Shortall died 19th Oct 1931.

Death Notice: Irish Independent and Irish Times Monday June 29 1925
Shortall (Clontarf) - At 66 St. Lawrence Rd., Clontarf, Sir Patrick Shortall aged 55. Deeply regretted. RIP. Funeral strictly private.

Obituary: Irish Independent and Irish Times Monday June 29 1925
Death of Sir Patrick Shortall. Last Saturday, Sir Patrick Shortall died at his residence Frankford, St. Laurence Rd., Clontarf after a very brief illness.
The deceased was a building contractor. He started business in a small way in York St. and by industry and energy, became a large and successful contractor, employing at times hundreds of men.
He was born in Dublin 55 years ago and he occupied a prominent position in the business life of the city. For many years, he represented the Rotunda Ward in the Corporation. He was High Sheriff 1915-16 and was knighted in 1916 for his services in connection with the Civic Exhibition, which was held in 1916.
In 1918, in the Irish Party interest, he contested the Clontarf Parliamentary division but was defeated. He was a Governor of the Meath Hospital and took an interest in charitable institutions. He was a self made man.

The Irish Times Wednesday October 21, 1931  Death of Mr. J.P. Shortall
From Reuter’s Correspondent – New York, Tuesday
The death is announced of James Patrick Shortall, the eldest son of the late Sir Patrick Shortall of Dublin.
He was aged 31 and died after an operation for mastoid.
Will Indices NAI – 1932 Shortall James Patrick (95) 12 April – Administration (with the will) of the personal estate of James Patrick Shortall formerly of 66 St Laurence Rd., Clontarf, Dublin and late of 237 W 109 Street, NY, USA  of no occupation who died 19 October 1931 granted at Dublin to Dermot Leo Chartered Accountant. Effects £254/0/10.Hope this is of interest. Patrick J S