George Edmunds/Edmonds

[ianardo]

Hello

I'm trying to find a birth record for my 3 x Great grandfather George Edmunds.

I have an obituary for him that was taken from "The South Shields Gazette" Monday 23 September 1929;

"MUTINY VETERAN - Death of Hebburn's Grand Old Man aged 102

General regret is felt in Hebburn at the passing of the grand old man of the town, Mr George Edmunds, the Indian Mutiny veteran.
Mr Edmunds, who died at his home, 40 Bewick Street, on Saturday afternoon, was in his 102nd year, which is a remarkable example of longevity considering his experiences during the terrible mutiny.
Mr Edmunds was a remarkable personality and Hebburn was proud to have him as a townsman. He celebrated his 101st birthday on April 12, and although he had retained all his faculties and did not use spectacles, he had been confined to the house for a considerable time and generally weakened physically.
Born in County Down, Mr Edmunds was of an Irish mother and English father. He joined the army when he was 18 or 19 years of age, and, after being in barracks in Essex, he was drafted to India, where he spent seven and a half years of his 11 years military service.
During the Indian Mutiny he fought in 27 battles and was able to relate thrilling tales of the horrors and cruelties of that time. He was at Cawnpore and Delhi.
General Sir Havelock Allan, he stated, took a great interest in him, and he was at the bedside of that gallant soldier when he died.
On leaving the army Mr Edmunds married and commenced business as a greengrocer in Hebburn in 1887. He was proud of the fact that he was the oldest greengrocer in the north of England, if not the whole of England. He went out with his cart until he reached the age of 85.
Mr Edmunds never used spectacles, and up to a year or so ago he was able to converse intelligently on many things. He was a non-smoker, but was partial to a glass of rum and milk. He was able to eat almost any kind of food.
He had six sons and three daughters, and has lived comfortably with an unmarried daughter at 40 Bewick Street for a great number of years."

Any help will be greatly appreciated

[obbie]

hi
do you know mother or fathers name ?
any siblings ?
whom did he marry and when where ?
do you have him on any census returns ?
do they say just ireland or co down ?
what year did he roughly leave england and roughly when he returned ?
names of all children as good posibility he named them after his and his wifes parents ?

[crowlie]

Hi,
   There is a lot of information in "fibis.org" about India around that time, plus lists of British Forces personnel.
      bob

[ianardo]

Thanks for the reply Obbie

The main reason for finding his birth record is to find the full names of his parents. I would like to find out from whereabouts in England the Edmunds name comes.
In answer to your other questions;
I dont know of any other siblings.
He married Eliza/Elizabeth Johnston on 4/7/1861 in Downpatrick Church of Ireland, his father is listed as George Edmunds, wifes father John Johnston.
Census returns:

1871-16 Hebburn Road, Hebburn. Age appears to be 35, George is a Green Grocer living with wife, Elizabeth 27, sons Thomas J 9 and George 5 and daughter Annie 8.

1881-37 Charles Lane, Hebburn. Aged 48, a coal dealer, living with son's Thomas J 18 and Alfred 9 and daughter's Annie 17 and Georgina 7. George is listed as married but no sign of his wife Eliza.

1891-49 William Lane, Hebburn. Aged 57, George is living with wife Elizabeth 46, sons Alfred 19 and William 13 and daughter Georgina 17.

1901-16 Cuthbert Street, Hebburn. Aged 67, a green grocer living with daughters Annie 37 and Georgina 26, son William 21 and grand daughter Gladis 6. The house is listed also as a shop.

1911-16 Cuthbert Street, Hebburn. Aged 77, George is a widower listed as an Army pensioner, living with sons Alfred 35 and William 29, daughter Annie 45 and grand daughter Gladys 16.

In all of the census records his place of birth is Ireland apart from 1911 where it says County Down.

Known children:
Thomas John, born 1862 Belfast
Annie, born 1864 Belfast
George, born 1866 Hebburn
Alfred, 1871 South Shields
Georgina, 1874 South Shields
Winnifred, 1883 Hebburn

[ianardo]

Thanks Bob

Thats another avenue I need to explore. If I could get his military record it may give his parents names and their whereabouts.

[obbie]

have you seen this
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=/eng/search/ancestorsearchresults.asp

George Edmunds. 3 apr 1833 kilkeel down george edmund martha or matty

george snr born 1807 married martha or matty kilkeel 1832

[obbie]

on emerald ancestors there two marriages

http://www.emeraldancestors.com/search/marriages/viewlistmarriages.asp?County=&Surname=edmund&Forenames=george&bridesurname=&brideforenames=&civildistrict=&searchtype=

[ianardo]

Thanks Obbie

I have seen the entry on Familysearch. It states the father, George, as being from Kilkeel and not England as in the newspaper article. Plus the birth year dosen't match as George was 101 when he died in 1929 so he must have been born around 1828. I'm not sure how acurate these records are but if this is the correct birth record I'm still struggling to link the Edmunds' back to England, any ideas?

The 1861 marriage record is the correct one. I have the birth records for George's children and they all show Eliza or Elizabeth Johnston as the mother.

Thanks again Obbie

[obbie]

i may be wrong , but i gather that birth dates and years of birth were not so important back then especially to the poor .
ages were guesstimated usually to 5 or 10 years , thats why census ages are sometimes so far out .
i would reckon your best bet is to get army record .
should give age if known when joined , also where born , and possible parents .
these can be got from kew in london i (google) used richard moles i found it cheaper to hire him to research and find and copy record which was posted to my door , he charged 45 stg . if you email him he will tell you what chance there is of finding record and cost .

as he returned and married in downpatrick id presume his family were living there so parents are not likely to be on english censuses .
i looked on
http://www.emeraldancestors.com/
and
http://www.ancestryireland.com/index.php?ai_home
his marriage is there recorded twice