Author Topic: My Shetland Brick Wall - John MUFFET/MOFFAT c1778?-1838? from Sandness & Setter  (Read 10090 times)

Offline Arwald

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I'd love some advice on breaking through this apparent dead end.

The earliest event I can trace back to is the following marriage:

Register of Contracts 1801
Nov 14th - John MUFFET, lawful son to James MUFFET of Sandness, and Lillias JAMIESON, lawful daughter to James JAMIESON in Goster, Walls, were contracted in order for marriage Nov 14th 1801 and were married December 1st 1801 by the Rev McThompson.


If we assume that John & Lillias were aged 16 - 30 when they married, then we should expect to find their birth registrations around 1770 - 1785. There are no registrations in Shetland for a John Muffet son of James Muffet, nor a Lillias Jamieson daughter of James Jamieson. If we assume James Muffet fathered John Muffet in his 20s, then James Muffet was probably born around 1750ish. If we then assume he lived till about 70-80 then he probably died around 1820-1830. The closest record for a James Moffat death in Walls occurs in 1850, where a James Moffat died aged "about 80". This would make him roughly the same age as his son, so must be ruled out.

When I hired a genealogist years ago he came back saying that I should ignore the James, and that he thinks this John is the same John that was  born 1 August 1782 in Papa Stour, the son of Henry MOFFAT and Marion HENRY. This couple certainly existed, and they did have a son called John. He also mentioned something about Mormon batch numbers, whereby the Mormon records had linked the 1801 John to the 1782 John.

When I looked around online I found my John in 3 different databases. 2 give his father as Henry, 1 gives his father as James:

http://testing.lisaandroger.com/getperson.php?personID=I42032&tree=John

http://genealogy.clanmoffat.org/getperson.php?personID=I19172&tree=UKEire

http://www.bayanne.info/Shetland/getperson.php?personID=I49755&tree=bayanne_1

Deaths and Burials in Walls 1838
March - Died John MOFFAT in Setter aged about 60 and was buried in Walls Church Yard.


It cannot be proven that this John is my John but everything seems to fit. John & Lillias were living in Setter at least as late as 1823, because they had the following children:

1. Arthur MOFFAT,   b. 1802, Breck, Sandness, SHI, SCT d. UNKNOWN
2. James MOFFAT,   b. 1806, Seater, Walls, SHI, SCT d. 10 Feb 1863, Stove, Walls, SHI, SCT
3. Thomas MOFFAT,   b. 1808, Setter, Walls, SHI, SCT d. 9 Jan 1887, Punds, Walls, SHI, SCT
4. Agnes MOFFAT,   b. 1811, Setter, Walls, SHI, SCT d. 1811, Setter, Walls, SHI, SCT
5. Catherine MOFFAT,   b. 1812, Setter, Walls, SHI, SCT d. 13 Sep 1874, Kellister, Sandness, SHI, SCT
6. Janet MOFFAT,   b. 1817, Setter, Walls, SHI, SCT d. Bef 1847
7. William MOFFAT,   b. 1820, Setter, Walls, SHI, SCT d. 18 Jan 1870, Brabister, Walls, SHI, SCT
8. Elizabeth MOFFAT,   b. 1823, Setter, Walls, SHI, SCT d. 1889, Lerwick, SHI, SCT

Lillias is found living with the family of her son Thomas in Vadlure (Vadlin?) for the first census in 1841. She cannot be found in the 1851 or 1861 census', and a Lillias MOFFAT died 22 January 1864 in Brinister, Sandsting aged 83, which I can only assume is the same Lillias who was married in 1801.




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Offline MonicaL

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Re: My Shetland Brick Wall - John MUFFET/MOFFAT c1778?-1838? from Sandness & Setter
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 15 July 10 17:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Arwald

Have you considered checking the death cert on line at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for the Lillias Moffat you have found in 1863 to see if it the correct entry for Lillias (will show husband's name) and if her parents' names are included (if known to the informant who registered her death)?

Possible entry for 1861 - everyone showing as born in Aithsting, Zetland - just thinking of that death entry you have found in Brinister:

Margnus Jameson 49, farmer of 4 acres
Elspeth Jameson 31
George Jameson 14
Jessie Jameson 11
Mathew Jameson 9
Catherine Jameson 7
Gilbert Jameson 5
John Jameson 3
Lillia Jameson 79, aunt, agr. lab (not usual in Scotland for women to use maiden name or married surname for various registations).

Address: Brinister, Sandsting and Aithsting, Shetland

Monica
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Offline Arwald

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Re: My Shetland Brick Wall - John MUFFET/MOFFAT c1778?-1838? from Sandness & Setter
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 15 July 10 21:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Arwald

Have you considered checking the death cert on line at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for the Lillias Moffat you have found in 1863 to see if it the correct entry for Lillias (will show husband's name) and if her parents' names are included (if known to the informant who registered her death)?

Possible entry for 1861 - everyone showing as born in Aithsting, Zetland - just thinking of that death entry you have found in Brinister:

Margnus Jameson 49, farmer of 4 acres
Elspeth Jameson 31
George Jameson 14
Jessie Jameson 11
Mathew Jameson 9
Catherine Jameson 7
Gilbert Jameson 5
John Jameson 3
Lillia Jameson 79, aunt, agr. lab (not usual in Scotland for women to use maiden name or married surname for various registations).

Address: Brinister, Sandsting and Aithsting, Shetland

Monica

Hi Monica
Yes I have checked the 1864 death certificate, unfortunately they didn't record her husband, nor did they record her parents:  >:(

That Lilia Jamieson in 1861 would be more or less the right age, but I can't prove anywhere that she had a nephew called Magnus. Lilias and her father James can be found on the Bayanne website. Lillias had (at least) two brothers, but none of them had a child called Magnus, at least according to Bayanne.

http://www.bayanne.info/Shetland/descend.php?personID=I52380&tree=bayanne_1&display=compact&generations=4

I guess I will have do a search for a Magnus Jamieson birth circa 1812 and see if his father was one of Lilias brothers. .

Yes the genforum post is mine, although some of the information has since proven inaccurate.


Offline MonicaL

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Re: My Shetland Brick Wall - John MUFFET/MOFFAT c1778?-1838? from Sandness & Setter
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 15 July 10 22:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Arwald

I have to admit to being a real novice on Shetland genealogy and resources  :P If I can just comment on general research, particularly in Scotland. You have John and Lillias' marriage entry from the Old Parish Registers, which fortunately names both their fathers (you are lucky in this as most don't). This is what you have to work from. I can't comment how the genealogist you employed to do your research jumped from a father named James for John Moffat to a father named Henry (or also Harry as I have seen on some IGI entries for his children with wife Marion).

Regarding that possible 1861 census entry and the snippet from that Lillias' death cert (pity about the lack of parent info  :-\). She shows as aunt living with a newphew Magnus. Would be worth following his through to hopefully a death past 1855 to see what it says about parents.

Looking at general IGI births/marriages on the Jamieson side. There is for example a marriage between a James Jamieson and a Lillian Morrison:

JAMES JAMESSON and LILLIAS MORRISE    
Marriage: 07 DEC 1756 Tingwall, Shetland

IGI entries for their children are a mixed bag in terms of how they have been entered. There is this entry for example:

MAGNUS JAMISON Birth: 28 MAR 1769/ Christening: 09 APR 1769 Dunrossness, Shetland,
Parents: JAMES JAMISON and LILIES, and

Also a son James: JAMES JAMISON Christening: 20 NOV 1757 Dunrossness

I am not saying this is the correct line for your Lillias but showing simply showing that these names were common within that surname.

These small communities are a real tussle to unravel for this time. Small number of surnames and a lot of family names with inter-marriages. Hard to get a handle given the period you are looking at. I also don't know how complete the Old Parish Register entries are for the period that they are supposed to cover (using the IGI batch codes to search).

Maybe following through the Magnus Jamieson might lead to some clues at least for Lillias, wife of John Moffat.

From Ancestry trees, this Magnus' death shows as being in 1872 in Brindister. From this tree, Elspeth who shows as wife in 1861 was his third wife. His birth c. 1812 to parents James and Catherine (Johnston). Children showing to this couple apart from Magnus, are Catherine b. 1808 and a Lillias b. 1817.

All clues unfortunately, which need verification.

Monica

PS: Can't access the Bayenne.info site at the moment, will try later.
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Offline Arwald

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To be Magnus' aunt, she would need to be Magnus' dad's sister. Magnus' dad was James Jamieson who married Catherine Johnson:

http://www.bayanne.info/Shetland/getperson.php?personID=I56187&tree=bayanne_1


Lilias did have a brother called James Jamieson, but he married Elspeth Thompson:

http://www.bayanne.info/Shetland/getperson.php?personID=I52376&tree=bayanne_1

Offline MonicaL

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Agree, relationship seems at least one generation out (would have to be g. aunt to fit). The 1861 census entry for that Lillias was the only one I could easily see that would fit with that possible death  :-\

Monica  :)
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Offline telfordBM

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Re: My Shetland Brick Wall - John MUFFET/MOFFAT c1778?-1838? from Sandness & Setter
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 06 October 10 23:00 BST (UK) »
Was recently in Shetland researching these names/Walls in particular - have we been in touch or have you contact/relationship with Jason Moffat in NZ?  Researched ourselves for Moffat family connections and for our link with Clan Moffat UK (membership/website/genealogy). Have photos of Moffat graves in Walls ~Churchyard etc. We visited Pinhoulland, Walls where Moffats lived. Will investigate furthet for you if any help and you have not solved it by now but have you viewed Clan Moffat UK ClanMoffat.Org databases? they have variants Maffet, Muffet etc. perhaps you are already a member.
Betty Telford (Madley, Hfd.)

Offline sancti

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Re: My Shetland Brick Wall - John MUFFET/MOFFAT c1778?-1838? from Sandness & Setter
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 06 October 10 23:31 BST (UK) »
The mention of John being the son of Henry Moffat may be this record in 1841 census

Name: Lilias Moffat
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1786

Where born: Orkney and Shetland, Scotland
 
Civil parish: Sandsting and Aithsting
County: Orkney and Shetland
Address: Burrafirth West

Household Members:

Name Age
Henry Moffat 55
Lilias Moffat 55
John Moffat 30
Elizabeth Moffat 20
Clementina Moffat 25
Marion Moffat 15