Church family - Derry to Canada 1820's

[akanex2]

Hi Ulster Alexander

Cannot identify your Thomas unfortunately.  My 6xgt grandparents John & Mary Church lived at The Grove and had a son named Thomas born in 1748, but he died aged 3 so he's not your ancestor.  The Grove is the main family farm which has been in the Church family from 1629 so we have pretty good records of each generation living there.  Where the records are less complete are for the families of younger sons of the main branch who may have lived in other houses adjoining the main farmhouse.  John had a younger brother James Church who did emigrate so this could be a possibility for your line.  James lived at Craigmore in Aghadowey parish (although he had been born at The Grove) and was married to Margaret McKnight (who died young in 1737) with whom he had 2 daughters.  It is possible he remarried producing Thomas, but have seen no mention of any second marriage here.  I have no Alexanders in my direct line and it is a fairly unusual name in the family generally - Thomas, George, Arthur, William and John are the most prevalent male names going back to the early 1600s.

As far as I know there has never been a Sir William Church in Londonderry, although I have heard before of this story from the US (I suspect the family have "promoted" his rank for additional prestige).  I'm afraid I cannot fit him into my tree though as all Williams of around the right age are accounted for.

Sorry I can be of more help

[Ulster Alexander]

Thanks Akanex2 and Aghadowey--just getting info from someone who lives in or near Londonderry helps a lot trying to get a picture of who lived where and knowing that these names and places weren't just fabricated. The fact that "the Grove" is mentioned, and learning that there is a Grove in Londonderry is quite helpful. Several of my main lines go back to Londonderry or nearby--the Alexanders & Brawleys (American spelling of likely Brolly) seem to be in Londonderry, possibly near Donegal and Tyrone; & then there are the Arbuckle and Clark  parents from Antrim who married in Coleraine, Londonderry; & the Arbuckle who married McCoys in Dunluca, Antrim along with the Jarvises and Arbuckles, the latter being also closely connected to the Alexanders. And then there are the Churches, who I'm just doing the more difficult research on. Actually, out of all these, I've found out more information about the Churches from both of you than I've been able to get on all the other family names. So I very much appreciate your input, insights, and suggestions.

As for given names in the downline of Thomas Church's family, there are, as you mentioned Akanex2, a number of Williams and several Thomases. When I find out who Thomas' parents are, I'll perhaps have something better to go on.

Akanex2, you  wrote that the records for the main Church family living at the Grove/the main branch are pretty good from 1629 on. Do you know of a book or anyplace online where I might see what there is for that part of the Church family? I’d like to have it for future reference as I get more into the details of this family. It would be very useful. Right now I'm very much in the dark as to the Church family in Ulster.

Again, I appreciate everyone's help, input and insights.

[kingskerswell]

Hi,
   Considering the terms "the Grove near" I wondered if this might have been "Grosvenor" pronounced with an Ulster accent. I am not aware of a Grosvenor in Londonderry and cannot find one so this may be a red herring.

Regards

[bshewmach]

In response to Ulster Alexander's post at 03:51 regarding "...a Dr. William and Mary (McAllister) Church settled in Lancaster County. This Dr. William Church was born about 1772 in Londonderry, and "Encyclopedia of Pennsylvania biography: illustrated," Volume 2, by John Woolf Jordan; Thomas Lynch Montgomery; et al states that this Dr. William Church was the son of Sir William Church.", while looking for clues to my own Church ancestors, I found the following which may serve for further research regarding William born in 1772. 

228 THE SCOTCH-IRISH IN AMERICA.
Dake, Mrs. Elizabeth Church, 216 Yine Street, Nashville, Tenm First year.
Born at Pittsburg, Pa. ; father, Dr. William Church, a leading physician of Pittsburg, Pa., was born at Coleraine, Ireland; mother, Elizabeth Taggart Church, born in North Ireland; wife of Dr. J. P. Dake, and mother of five children ; Manager of Protestant Orphan Asylum, and of the Woman's Mission Home, Nashville, Tenn.

Dake, Dr. William Church, 218 North Yine Street, Nashville, Tenn. 1892.
Born in Pittsburg, Pa., January 28, 1852; became a resident of [continued on next page...LIST OP MEMBERS. 229] Nashville, Term., June 22, 18G9; eldest son of Dr. J. P. and Elizabeth Church Dake; mother horn in Pittsburg, Pa., August 19, 1S26; mother's father, Dr. William Church, Jr., born in Coleraine, Ireland, August 1, 1795; mother's mother, Elizabeth Taggart Church, born in County Down, Ireland, December, 1795; mother's grandfather, Dr. William Church, Sr., born in Coleraine, Ireland, August 19, 1772; mother's grandmother, Margaret McAllister Church, born in Ireland in 1770; mother's grandparents came to America in 1797, and settled in Strasburg, Lancaster County, Pa.; removed to Pittsburg, Pa., in 1805; physician; President (1S92- 93) Southern Homeopathic Medical Association; President (1891- 93) Homeopathic Medical Society of Tennessee; member American Institute of Homeopathy, and of American Obstetrical Society.

Source: http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/scotch-irish-congress/the-scotch-irish-in-america--proceedings-of-the-scotch-irish-congress-toc/page-22-the-scotch-irish-in-america--proceedings-of-the-scotch-irish-congress-toc.shtml

[akanex2]

You might be interested in looking at the online Northern Ireland wills for the years 1858-1900 on the PRONI website (although to late for anything directly applicable to Ulster Alexander)

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx

This is the will of James Church who owned the main house of the Grove until 1884

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=184060

which may be of interest - also for bshewmach here is the will of Mary Ann Church of Kilrea (she was the widow of Thomasina Diamond's brother Edward)

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=190039

The site also gives administration details (i.e. no will left) for Stephen Church (Edward's brother) and Elwood (Edward's son).

Nothing detailing the Grove family is online I'm afraid - my details come from the notes made by the grandson of James (whose will I mentioned above) from old wills and family bibles now lost.

[bshewmach]

Thank you akane2. It's a shame there is not more information available to researchers. I am slowly piecing together all the bits and pieces here on Rootschat and from various other sites to try to get a more complete picture of the family of Thomasina CHURCH, her siblings, parents (Stephen CHURCH/Bridget WELSH) and ancestors. Haven't found anything regarding Bridget WELSH'sparents yet. If anyone has any additional details on the children of Stephen and Bridget I would love to hear from you.

[akanex2]

Here's what I know of the family of Stephen Church and Bridget Welsh:-

The family lived on a farm called Tullycreggan near the Grove and Stephen also acted as land agent for his cousin James Church who owned the Grove.  In the 1831 census the household consisted of 5 males, 4 females and one servant - I presume this is the parents, 4 sons and 3 daughters (unless other relatives lived with them).  I can only identify 3 sons and 3 daughters and at least one son had also left home before 1831.

Edward was the son not at home in 1831.  I believe he was living in the nearby town of Kilrea where he was a shopkeeper. He married Mary Ann O'Kane and had family (Charles, Elwood, Joseph and Catherine are named in their mother's will).

George emigrated to the USA (possibly with another brother).

Stephen inherited the family farm and lived for a while in The Grove house while acting as agent for his father's cousin, James.  He married Elizabeth Morrow and had 3 children, John, James and Alicia.  He was murdered on 26th Dec 1874 at the Grove, having recently evicted some of James's tenants, but no one was ever convicted of the murder.  His widow and younger children joined the eldest, John, in Texas where he had settled before his father's death.

Elizabeth died unmarried and is buried in Kilrea Church of Ireland graveyard with her mother.

Thomasina married Andrew Diamond and her family moved to Glasgow.

Margaret also moved to Glasgow and married Paul Scullion.

[bshewmach]

Thank you. Do you know if Mary O'Kane was related to Peter Murray & Mary Kane whose daughter Roseanne was married to John Diamond (s/o Andrew Diamond and Thomasina Church--mentioned in your post of 1:43 on 21 December) in Glasgow?

Do you have information regarding your Kane connections online anywhere? And, if so, would you please let me know where I could go to view the data?

[Ulster Alexander]

I realize I'm back late to the party after everyone's gone home but just in case someone sees this, I'd be interested in any feedback one might have. Last year I posted a query regarding the family of Thomas Church in America. He was born ca. 1743 "at the Grove" in County Derry, Ireland. During the American Revolution, Thomas Church served in the same regiment with an unknown Alexander Church. I suspect that latter was a relative of Thomas since Thomas had a son named Alexander Church. Thomas also had a grandson named Alexander, a great-grandson Alexander and two g-great-grandsons named James Alexander Church. AKANEX2 replied to my query and wrote that the given name Alexander is unusual in the Church family genealogy at the Grove. However, recently I ran across a Church branch in Northern Ireland that almost mirrors my Church family in America. in terms of using the name Alexander as a given name. About 70 years after my Thomas Church was born, a John Church, born ca. 1807. This John died in Loughguile, County Antrim. But among John Church's children was a son named Alexander Church. And downline from this Alexander Church well into more recent times there are 6 other Alexander Churches, two James Alexander Churches, and one John Alexander Church in this particular branch of the family. Given the number of Alexanders downline from John Church, I would suspect that upline from John there are other Alexanders as well. Does anyone have any idead how this particular branch of the Church family (beginnning with John Church, b. ca. 1807) fitd in to the Church clan of Northern Ireland? (SEE www.churchclan.net)