Lookups Request - THOMAS / JONES,\ from Kidwelly/Burry Port area

[lyndahirst_1]

Hi Listers

Forgive my lengthy post but would like to offer all the information I have found so far:-

my gr-grandmother has a very common name - variously Catherine/Katherine/Kate/Katie Jane THOMAS - and I am struggling to locate any BMD for her.

I do have her marriage cert but there's no father noted on there and at the moment, without being able to locate any birth record, I have absolutely no idea who her mother [or father] could be so am stuck ..

Katie was born around 1884 in the Kidwelly area [family firmly ensconced there and Burry Port] and on the 1891 census, she is listed as living with her grandparents - family name of THOMAS.

They are living at Lady Street, Kidwelly - gr-gr-grandmother being the widowed Lettice [Litha sic] THOMAS [nee Protheroe] - there's Lettice, 5 aunts plus 2 uncles plus the two grandkids [both with unknown parentage] on that census - my gr-nana down as Katie Thomas aged 5 [RG12; Piece: 4498; Folio 64; Page 23].

Lettice's husband has died by the 1891 census but is listed on the 1881.

I haven't found Katie on either the 1901 or the 1911 census yet.

I did find hubby Evan and eldest daur Margaret/Maggie Letitia Jones enumerated with his parents in Pant Y-Rhiw Burry Port County, on the 1911 census, but no Katie enumerated with them.  [RG14PN32874 RG78PN1877 RD596 SD4 ED6 SN64]

There is some confusion around when my grandmother [Sarah Elizabeth WILLIAMS was born but by all accounts, it was 1911 - I therefore had hopes of find Katie with Nana on the 1911 census but no joy so far so perhaps Nana was born after the census date.

It it's at all possible I'd be very grateful if anyone was able to discover answers to any of my questions -

[1] any parish record which might identify if Katie was baptised and if so, are any parents at all mentioned.

[2] Is there any mention in the local Llanelli newspaper archives of her marriage in 1903 to Evan Jones

Katie was buried at St Peter's in Cockett, under name of 'Catherine Jane Jones' on 25 April 1949 and at that time, Kate and her husband [Evan Jones] were living at 14 Page Street, Swansea.

[3] Is there any mention of her death/funeral in the local Llanelli newspaper - there's nothing obvious in the Swansea papers.

Husband Evan JONES died in Burry Port in 1950 and is buried in the same plot with Katie, at Cockett - again, I'm unable to locate definite BMD as such a common name, but he was buried there on 03 April 1950.

[4] is there's any mention of his death/funeral in the local Llanelli papers ?

Many thanks for reading Listers - fingers crossed! .

Cheers
Lynda

[welsh lady]

The 1891 census in Lady Street has a few possibilities for the Mother of Kate as she seems to be illegitimate and there is  an  Ann in the family age 26 as a possible Mother for Kate
Checked the 1901 couldnt find a Kate Thomas but thought the Mother might have married,I just checked for a Kate right age born Kidwelly with no surname.The family below are a possibility

1901 40 Marble Hall Road Llanelly
RG13 Piece 5089 Folio 163 Page 21
Thomas John,Head,37,coal miner,Llanelly
Ann John,Wife,36,Kidwelly
Kate John,Dau,16,Kidwelly

This marriage fits ?Marriage Free BMD
Qtr June 1896 Llanelly
Thomas John to Ann Thomas

[lyndahirst_1]

ooohhh... that's a great looking contender indeed Welsh Lady and will search to see if I can find the family in 1911.

Will post results once I've had a look around.....

Thanks!!

cheers
Lynda

  

[lyndahirst_1]

well I couldn't find a birth on FreeBMD between 1880-1886  for any variation of Kate Jane JOHN so this option you found for me Welsh Lady, looks promising indeed.

[There is a Catherine Jane John born Q3 1887 but as Kate was listed as being 65 years of age when she was buried, I am going to discount this option as being ineligible being as her age at 1949 death, indicates birth 1884 - 1887 is possibly too large a discrepancy I think.]

I haven't been able to locate the family in 1911 census though and Marble Hall Rd doesn't appear to exist., nor have I found Kate [either as Thomas, John or Evans] so it's either been horribly transcribed or even simply a missing piece. I might need to go through the entire Llanelli piece to see if I can spot her somehow... eeek!

I'll order the marriage cert and hope it will give me a lead to follow up -- fingers crossed that both dad's and/or witnesses are not listed as John, Thomas or William!!    loll..

Cheers
Lynda

[lyndahirst_1]

I've received the marriage cert and yay.. this is the right marriage cert as it has Ann living at her widowed mother's address prior to getting married - Lady Street, Kidwelly and one of the witnesses is her mother Letitia.

It gets a bit tricky then as although the 1901 census shows Thomas, his wife Ann and 'daughter' Kate living in Marble Hall Road, Kidwelly, the 1911 census shows just Thomas and Ann living at Penallt Terrace, Llanelly - Ann however, is down as having had no children at all.

This leads me down a couple of paths
-- is it a mistake on the census or an oversight of some sort - it looks pretty darn clear though as lovely writing :-)
-- is Kate actually Thomas Johns' daughter instead of being Ann's daughter as I'd hoped.
  -- did Thomas father Kate with one of Ann's sisters who either didn't want to marry Thomas, or vv
  -- did that sister pass away and Kate went to live with her aunt and new husband/father?

Can't really see Thomas being her dad as if so, she could have easily named him on her marriage cert in 1903 two years after the 1901 census but she didn't - that area is left blank.

I'm still tending to think that any one of the Thomas gals could be the mother but that Ann could theoretically be discounted based on the 1911 fact of no children.

If only I could locate a contender for a birth cert for Kate, that might pinpoint her mother for sure.

Ann THOMAS married Thomas JOHN at Calfaria English Baptist Chapel, Wern, Llanelly - I'm wondering if this was their 'local' and if there might be any Baptism records available
- if so, could anyone perhaps check to see if they can find a record for a Catherine/Katherine/Kate Jane THOMAS born around 1884 or thereabouts?

Any suggestions most welcome...

Cheers
Lynda