John CHRISTIE - Glasgow Police detective C1841-51

[annmck]

Oh wheeo,
Thank you very much for that...I was so surprised & pleased to see your post, as progress on John had really slowed to a tiny trickle! What a bonus to have his 1829 address!
I'll seek out the John Millar precognition asap. 

Were Gruer McGruer & Donald McLean the other 2 police who gave evidence against John Millar, do you know? They & John Christie were described as the 3 principal Criminal Officers, and they were signatories to the 1831 criminal statistic data enumeration. It  was part of the"Enumeration of the inhabitants of the city of Glasgow and county of Lanark, for the government census of 1831: with population and statistical tables relative to England and Scotland"  (by James Cleland LL D January 1, 1831).


Cheers,
Ann

 

[wheeo]

Dear Ann

The three police officers in the case of John Millar were:
"Gruer McGruer, now of lately the criminal police officer in Glasgow, and now or lately residing in Saracens Lane, Gallowgate of Glasgow
Alexander Stewart, now of lately the criminal police officer in Glasgow, and now or lately residing in Hutcheson Street of Glasgow
John Christie, now of lately the criminal police officer in Glasgow, and now or lately residing in Deanside Lane in or near Glasgow"

There was also initial statements from
George Ritchie now or lately keeper of the Bridewell at Paisley in the country of Renfrew  and
Neil White, now of lately police Officer in Paisley, and now of lately residing in High Street of Paisley aforesaid.

John Millar was a "thief by habite and repute" and carried out a significant theft in Stockwell Street Glasgow. He was found guilty and transported to Sydney Australia for life.

The statement in the Precognition of John Millar made by John Christie reflected his knowledge as to the character of John Millar.
"Declares that he has known John Millar for about four years. That Millar associates with thieves, has been in custody on charges of theft and bears the character of a thief, but has never been convicted here tho' the Declarant has heard that he was convicted before the Sheriff in Greenock.(signed John Christie)."

This was similar to the statement by Gruer McGruer.

The pages are very large and too difficult to copy as a multipage document. The file is also too big to send a picture of what I think is John Christie's signature from the Precognition record for John Millar. If I can PDF it in the next few days I will post in on this site.

Regards Gay

[annmck]

Gay, that is so kind. Thanks for making the offer.

John C intrigues me. I've not been able to find a death for him or wife Janet Stewart/Stewart, or been able to work out the precise nature of the relationship between him and the Swan & Orr families, whose daughters were residing with him in 1851.

A Malcolm Christie, coalminer, was residing (with Swans & a 7 yo John Christie) in the house of his aunt, Isabella Gherkin, (mistranscribed Erskine?) in Clarkston in the 1851 census. As mentioned previously in this thread, IGI has an 1823 birth record for a Malcom (sic) Christie, parents John Christie & Janet Stewart. However, I can't find evidence for Isabella being a sister to John or Janet... Cheers, Ann

[wheeo]

An excerpt from the Precognition with John Christie's signature at the bottom. Sorry all the content is not there.

Regards

[loobylooayr]

Hi,
Just read your thread with interest 
Have no connection to any of the families , but had some free time to browse.

You mention that you are looking for a connection between John Christie and the Swan family and Janet Orr (granddaughter)

Firstly, there is a Janet Orr aged 2 on the 1841 Census which could be of interest-
Lanarkshire, New Monkland, Clarkston,
Arden

Archibald Orr          age 25            Iron Miner       born Lanarkshire
Margaret Christie    age 20                                               "
Janet Orr                 age 2                                                "
James Orr                age 3 mths                                       "

Also found a marriage of a Margaret Chrystie to an Archibald Orr in Oct 1838 in New Monkland - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYWM-L86
Could this be a daughter of John's?


Also re. Isabella Erskine/Swan - her place of birth on 1851 Census is Strathfillan Perthshire. Granted this is not close to Dunblane (John's place of birth) but I wondered if there was a Perthshire link??

Lastly- Have you found John on 1841 Census - I've had a quick look but had no joy. And now I need to call my family history nosy-ing to a halt! Need to go to supermarket. 

Looby

[annmck]

Gay, thank you for the precognition excerpt...it's now attached to John's media file, and I'm delighted to have it!

Looby, thank you for noseying! I appreciate the fresh eyes, heaven knows  I had "pencilled in" as a possibility the Archibald & Margaret (Chrystie) Orr family, but haven't found a supporting birth for Margaret Chrystie/Christy/Christie with parents John & Janet (Stewart/Stuart).
And, no, I can't find John or wife Janet on either the Scottish OR English 1841 census! Their daughter, Janet, my 3xgtgrandmother, emigrated to Australia on the "Herald," which sailed from Greenock, Scotland, circa April 1841 and arrived in Sydney, NSW on 15 July 1841. Her migration papers record her parents names and address, but no mention is made of her mother being deceased. (Of course, she may have died after daughter Janet sailed). John is certainly widowed by the 1851 census.
Perthshire crops up with regularity in a no. of possible scenarios with this family.

Cheers!

[loobylooayr]

Hi again Ann,

What address did Janet give for her parents in 1841 please? Apologies if you noted it earlier in the thread but I couldn't see it.

Looby

Added - Silly me ! It's on the very first post.

[sancti]

Did you try contacting the police archives for further info on John Christie?

http://www.glasgowlife.org.uk/libraries/the-mitchell-library/archives/collections/police-archives/Pages/default.aspx

Glasgow - Records of Glasgow Police (1825-1975

The registers vary in amount of biographical detail but may include name, age, place of birth, marital status and whether the officer had children, height, addresses and career progression (or lack of).



The records include personal details about the policemen and may record notes on disciplinary action. 

[wheeo]

I have just found a new reference to John Christie, police criminal officer in a book about Scottish women who were sent to Van Dieman's Land on board the convict ship the Atwick. The book is called "Abandoned Women" by Lucy Frost, 2015 and published by Allen and Unwin. The crime was committed by a woman called Catherine Chisholm who made counterfeit coins and who on 6 April 1836 was arrested. There is good detail about the case which it appears John Christie resolved. The author refers to John Christie as "one of Glasgow's most assiduous police criminal officers". The book is really interesting, easy to read and a great reference. Hope this helps.