Author Topic: James McArthur of Campbeltown  (Read 24459 times)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #9 on: Monday 30 August 10 13:00 BST (UK) »
Mmm....Iain, my money is on your James' father being Neil - why don't you like him?  ;D

Your James and Catherine married in January 1850 in Campeltown. These are some of the births showing for their children, including your direct line Robert - all from IGI:

1. NEIL MCARTHUR Birth: 12 MAY 1850/ Christening: 03 MAY 1853 Campbeltown, Argyll
2. DUGALD HAWTHORN MCARTHURBirth: 28 FEB 1853/ Christening: 03 MAY 1853 Campbeltown, Argyll
3. JAMES MCARTHUR Birth: 09 APR 1855 Campbeltown, Argyll (possible marriage for him on 31 Dec 1879 in Campeltown).
4. WILLIAM MCARTHUR  Birth: 01 JUL 1858 Campbeltown, Argyll, (possible marriage on 28 dec. 1891 in Campeltown).
5. ROBERT MCFARLANE MCARTHUR Birth: 11 SEP 1860 Campbeltown, Argyll

Possible census entries:

1851:
Samuel Mcarthur 22, Rope Maker b. Campbeltown - down as Samuel on the index I am looking at?
Catherine Mcarthur 27 b. b. Campbeltown
Neil Mcarthur 10 months b. Campbeltown
Neil Hawthore 25, boarder, rope maker b. Campbeltown

Address: Main Street, Campbeltown

1861:
James Mcarthur 33, rope maker
Catherine McArthur 36
Neil McArthur 11
Dugald Hawthorn McArthur 8
James McArthur 6
William McArthur 3
Robert M McArthur 7 Months
Donald Hawtorn 29, lodger, Boilermaker Labourer

Address: 1 Charles Street, Greenock West Renfrewshire

1871:
James Mcarthur 44, butcher
Cathrine Mcarthur 48
Neil Mcarthur 20
Dugald H Mcarthur 18
James Mcarthur 16
William Mcarthur 13
Robert Mcarthur 11

Address: Kirk Street, Campeltown

Likely death of James pre-1881 (from earlier questions - have you checked his death cert?) and Ev has posted details of Catherine widowed by 1881 and her likely death from SP.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Iain...

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #10 on: Monday 30 August 10 13:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Iain
Likely, is just one of those things!

Monica  :)

Hi Monica..., I just knew that I could count on you for good advice.    For Scotland's People..., someone has proposed it a Christmas present, so I'll have to wait !  :)  

"Sounds like you have his parents' details (from his death cert?)."     No..., simply the census details from when they were all children.

Nonetheless, I have been having fun searching the http://www.ralstongenealogy.com/index.htm  site..., absolutely incredible !   Remember my Grandmother Mary MacArthur, (thanks to you I got her details) ..., well, to my astonishment, I found that the inscription on her headstone includes that of my Mother.    Although I saw my Mother in England a few days before she died, my 30 years absence in Belgium created a situation where I didn't know my family had transferred her remains to Campbeltown.    

I'm just about sure that my research is correct..., nonetheless, I do like to double-check !

1860 > Robert.
1828 > James.
1794 > James.
1776 > Archibald.
± 1756 > Duncan.

Thanks Monica.
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT

Offline Iain...

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #11 on: Monday 30 August 10 13:14 BST (UK) »
Wow Ev and Monica !    I'll need some time to reply to all that.    I should be working, but I've since decided to take the afternoon off !  :) 
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT

Offline MonicaL

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #12 on: Monday 30 August 10 13:21 BST (UK) »
That's brilliant that you have made so much progress  :)

I do have big doubts on this bit though - working back from James, the butcher.....

As you can see, the family from Drumlunble, Campbeltown look to have been a family of coal miners. You have your James already married to Catherine in 1850, whilst the son James, of James and Nancy is still at home with parents in 1851. You also have all the other inconsistencies with their son James married to Agnes McGeachy as Ev has been researching, and living at Drumlunble in 1881, by which point your James is likely to have died and Catherine shows as a widow that year.

From IGI, I think your James' parents show as Neil (which fits well with the name of his and Catherine's first born son) and Catherine Mitchell. A number of their children's births and christenings show on IGI in Campeltown, including a likely one for your James.

There is also this possible 1841 census entry:

Neil Macarthur 45, shoemaker journeyman
Catharine Macarthur 43
John Macarthur 18
Janet Macarthur 16
James Macarthur 13
Margret Macarthur 11
William Macarthur 9
Neil Macarthur 6
Donald Macarthur 2
Mary Wilson 20, Cotton H L W b. Scotland

Address: Fleming's Land, Campbeltown

Only the death cert for James will let you confirm though for certain. £6 will let you view up to 5 images on line at SP.

Monica 
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline MonicaL

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #13 on: Monday 30 August 10 14:21 BST (UK) »
Having taken the afternoon off, a little bit more to add to your research  ;) Ev found a possible death for Catherine Hawthorn/McArthur in 1895.

From www.myainfolk.ca/records?category=&type=&q=dugald+hawthorn&sort=date

Death: Catherine McArthur on 1895 Nov 6 at Burnside Street, Campbeltown. Aged 73 Years. Parents: Dugald Hawthorn (Deceased), a Butcher and Mary Campbell (Deceased), Husband James McArthur, a Butcher. Informant R McArthur (Son) Dalarnan, Campbeltown (likely your Robert?)

And likely, the Neil who shows with James and Catherine in 1851:

Marriage: Neil Hawthorn, Ropespinner on 1861 Oct 8 in Campbeltown,35 Years. Parents Dugald Hawthorn (Deceased), Flesher and Mary Campbell (Deceased). Wife Ann Armour, 27 Years (parents William Armour, farmer and Mary Dunlop).

A few more details for family on the site. If you search 'James McArthur', you will see likely marriage of son William a butcher, father james and mother Catherine Hawthorn in 1891.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Iain...

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 31 August 10 07:54 BST (UK) »
EV and Monica..., bonjour !

Sorry for not getting back to you yesterday, but when the family got the impression that I was taking some time off, suddenly, everyone finds me things to do.   :)

As for Neill McArthur !    Well, as you have probably already experienced..., when you psychologically adopt someone as an ancestor, (James, Archibald and Duncan) it's difficult to discard them like an old clothe..., especially in exchange for some "foreigner." (a non-Campbeltonian)    Wasn't it Tony Hancock that once said that his lineage and blood was 100% British..., with just a sprinkling of Viking ?   ;D

Anyway..., EV..., being a bit of a newbie to all this, I've as yet no access to such luxury sites !   :D    Nonetheless, I do have access to all the censuses from 1841 to 1901..., and viewing each target-person when they are children, automatically gives me their parents. (I then back this up by using IGI, My ain folk, etc.)

Monica, in reply to the list with the two James's..., this is the family ! (James "13," married Catherine Hawthorn for the 61 census)   Via the Ralston site, I found a James McArthur gravestone at the Kilkivan graveyard giving the date 1894, 69 years. (this graveyard is between the Machrihanish coastline <where they need ropes..., and where Paul McCartney decided to live>  and Drumlemble <the coal mines, where the family lived and worked>)   At the age of 13, son James (born 1827) was already a coalminer and became a rope maker at the age of 33.

Now..., all the censuses from 41 to 71 indicate both father and son.

   41:  Son James 13 years with father James 46. (mother Agnes 46)
   51:  Son James 23 years with father James 56. (mother Agnes 56)
   61: Son James 33 years with wife Catherine Hawthorn. (and Gr Robert McFarlane McArthur aged 7 months..., as you know, Robert is mentioned on my grandmother's wedding certificate)
   71:  Son James "44," gave up coal mining and rope-spinning to became a butcher..., probably because his father-in-law was a butcher.   (Robert also became a butcher.)

If I go back to the 41 census for father James McArthur born 1795..., I find that he is a coal miner living at Drumlemble and married of course to Agnes. (McMillan ?)    Then, verifying the IGI reports, this gives James McArthur as being born on the 20th of July, 1794 with parents Archibald and Margaret Watson. 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Monica: "If the right family, your James and his sister Agnes are showing as born outside the county of Argyll."   This is of course a bit of a dilemma, (if not a mistake) nonetheless, it shouldn't change the lineage of "father" James.   

Ev: "It would seem that james mcarthur is still alive in 1881 drumlemble campbeltown james mcarthur 53 coalminer born lanark wife agnes 53."   Wow..., Lanark !   But why would all the McArthur's on the census forms indicate Argyll with Campbeltown as the civil parish ?     Also..., in 1881, he should have been "pensioned off" as a butcher !    For a newbie..., this is getting complicated !  ;D

Thanks for your help..., it's really appreciated.   Iain.
McArthur - Campbeltown and Tiree Scotland
Black - Campbeltown Scotland - Rathlin Ireland
MacFarlane - Tiree
Wood / Boorman / Gimber / Lee... KENT
Dennett / Mase / Varrier /  Over... KENT

Offline MonicaL

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 31 August 10 12:03 BST (UK) »
Iain....we're about to shake up your genealogy roots....you have to un-adopt the family of James - James - Archibald - Duncan line..... ;D

You seem to have a double entry for your James in 1851:

The correct James following his marriage to Catherine Hawthorn in 1850:

1851:
Samuel Mcarthur 22, Rope Maker b. Campbeltown - down as Samuel on the index I am looking at?
Catherine Mcarthur 27 b. b. Campbeltown
Neil Mcarthur 10 months b. Campbeltown
Neil Hawthore 25, boarder, rope maker b. Campbeltown

Address: Main Street, Campbeltown

And then the other James, son of James and Agnes:

1851:
James Mcarthur 56, coal miner
Nancy Mcarthur 56
James Mcarthur 23, coal miner

Address: Drumlunble, Campbeltown

Your James can't be both!

Joking aside....I have now looked at the DC of the James McArthur that Ev identified, who died in 1872 in Campbeltown....this is your James  :)

James McArthur, 42, butcher, husband of Catherine Hawthorn died 29 Oct 1872 at Kirk Street Campbeltown (where the family were living in the 1871 census). His son Neil reported his death from cancer of (can't make out).

His parents are shown below on the attached clip  ::)




Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 31 August 10 12:33 BST (UK) »
In respect of children to Neil and Catherine (Mitchell), from IGI:

1. MARGARET MCARTHUR Christening: 21 AUG 1820 Campbeltown, Argyll
2. JOHN MCARTHUR Christening: 26 DEC 1822 Campbeltown, Argyll (submitted details of a marriage for John to a Catherine Sillars on 03 JUL 1856 in Campbeltown)
3. JANET MCARTHUR Christening: 07 DEC 1824 Campbeltown, Argyll
4. JAMES MCARTHUR Christening: 25 NOV 1827 Campbeltown, Argyll...your James  :)
5. MARGARET MCARTHUR Christening: 09 MAY 1830 Campbeltown, Argyll
6. WILLIAM MCARTHUR Christening: 11 OCT 1832 Campbeltown, Argyll
7. NEILL MCARTHUR Christening: 18 APR 1835 Campbeltown, Argyll
8. DONALD MCARTHUR Christening: 09 JUL 1838 Campbeltown, Argyll

There are submitted details on IGI for a Neil McArthur and Catherine Mitchell marrying in Glasgow on 04 OCT 1819.

Family's 1851 entry:

Neil Mcarthur 54, shoe maker
Catherine Mcarthur 52
Janet Mcarthur 27
William Mcarthur 19, fisherman
Neil Mcarthur 16
Donald Mcarthur 13
Archd Mcalister 25, son in law, seaman

Address: Main Street, Campbeltown

There is a possible death for a Catherine Mitchell/McArthur in Campbeltown in 1869, aged 73. Also a Neil McArthur in 1872 in Campbeltown, aged 78.

Monica

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: James McArthur of Campbeltown
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 31 August 10 13:24 BST (UK) »
Iain, this info all needs to be confirmed as it comes from family trees on Ancestry, which can be a great guide but needs verification if original documents/sources are not included  :)

The trees have the death dates I gave earlier for deaths of Neil - 1872 and Catherine - 1869.

Neil down as having been born on 9 June 1795 in Helipol Tyree. Parents John McArthur and Janet McFarlane. Death on 2 August 1872 (just before son James in October?) in Campbeltown.

Catherine has a Glasgow birth on 17 June 1796 (might explain the Glasgow marriage?). Parents John Mitchell and Margaret Muir. Her death is down as 27 Feb. 1869 in Campbeltown.

More importantly, one of the tree owners seems to have your James and Catherine (Hawthorn)'s line which looks well researched with lots of details for their children. Numerous details there for your grandfather Robert McFarlane McArthur.

I think from what you have said regarding access to the Scottish census transcripts, you may well have access to Ancestry? If so, why don't you try and contact the tree owners to discuss further, particularly the one with your James' details to try to connect to family lines  :)

Monica 



Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk