Author Topic: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt  (Read 32032 times)

Offline Adnepos_Iacobi

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #9 on: Monday 06 September 10 19:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks wilcoxon, that's useful information.

On balance it seems that Richard Kirk moved to the area 1769/70, maybe 1771 (his father died in September 1771 and he married in East Cheshire in October 1771).

The opportunities in mining (coal and lead) were probably what attracted him.
Powell (NTT) Hallam (DBY) Nadin (DBY) Hartley (Ancoats) Beech (Kirk Sandal) Potter (DBY)

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Online wilcoxon

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #10 on: Monday 06 September 10 20:19 BST (UK) »
In the same Brymbo book there is this.
c 1770. Brynmally Coilliery  started by Messrs James & Venables.
1812 Southsea Colliery then held by Richard Kyrke.

It seems likely that Kyrke and Venables had a common interest  ???

Also from the site maidmarion mentioned.
Dickenson, James Kyrke, Highfield, Wrexham, Denbigh, Gent 
  James Kyrke Dickenson : bond, 1847.
http://hdl.handle.net/10107/29655

Kyrke, James, Peudwll, Wrexham, Denbigh, Gent 
 James Kyrke : bond, 1857. This names Richard Venables Kyrke.  :)
It could be Pendwll, which is very close to  where  Brynmally colliery was.
 
http://hdl.handle.net/10107/794965
 
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Offline Adnepos_Iacobi

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #11 on: Monday 06 September 10 21:00 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the very useful finding that Richard Kirk's in-laws (the Venables) were also involved in the mining around Wrexham. That pretty much ties up the explanation for Richard's move from Derbyshire to Denbighshire.

James Kyrke DICKENSON was a grandson of the above Richard KIRK (1747-1839), son of Margaret who married John DICKENSON. Is there a reason I should take a look at his 1857 bond?

I ordered the other 1857 bond over the weekend from the National Library of Wales -a very efficient service I must say! Richard Venables KYRKE (brother and executor to the will of James KYRKE, died 1857), William DULEY and John VAUGHAN all three of Wrexham bonded between them 200GBP on the behest of the Rt Reverend Thomas Fowler, Lord Bishop of St Asaph, over details of the preparation of the inventory of goods etc of the late James KYRKE of Pendwll. Peudwll is a typo.

Many thanks to maidmarion and wilcoxon  for the help. My question about the reason for the move to the Wrexham area is answered as best I can expect.

I'll take a look at the two books “Brymbo and it`s Neighbourhood “ by Graham Rogers and "Eminent Men of Denbighshire" by H. Ellis Hughes.
Powell (NTT) Hallam (DBY) Nadin (DBY) Hartley (Ancoats) Beech (Kirk Sandal) Potter (DBY)

Online wilcoxon

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #12 on: Monday 06 September 10 22:42 BST (UK) »
Is there a reason I should take a look at his 1857 bond?

You can see the original document just by clicking the link.

You  might  to join this , there are many entries in the BMD and obits for Kyrke, all for members of this family from the 1830s onwards.

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/onrl/

Look at FAQ`s for how to join.


Census information is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Online wilcoxon

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 07 September 10 09:46 BST (UK) »
Just a few bits and bobs I picked up in some old local history magazines.
They were published by the Broughton History Group.

Richard Kyrke of Martinside came to the area c 1775 and used coal for smelting Minera lead.
Brynmally colliery was started in 1770 by Charles Roe of Macclesfield and James Venables from whom the grandson of Richard Kyrk adopted the name Richard Venables Kyrke.
It was sold to Richard Kyrk by Roe and Venables who worked it till 1815.
His son George inhertited in on his death in 1839, but  the family appeared to come into financial problems and in 1842 it was mortaged by George, and on 13 January 1849 James Kyrke became bankrupt, members of the family moved to Gwersyllt Hill. This is possibly the reason that Thomas Clayton had the chance to buy the estate.

Poolmouth
1839 tithe map of Broughton shows a large pool in the valley below Brynmally.
Ffrwd canal was built by Telford and passed through this area and on 30 November 1796 at a meeting of the canal proprieters it was stated that - Ordered that Mr Richard Kyrke do lift with his engine the water to the level of the Frood branch. It seems then that the reservoir Telford built was used top up the canal. By about 1813 it was reported that the canal was dry, and it was abandoned.
(Parts of the canal can still be seen and one length is about 25 yards from the back of my house, the stones used for building it are still there)

The higher lake was enlarged by Thomas Telford   to provide water for the Frwdd canal, it was bought in 1843 for £140 by Richard Venables Kyrke.
 On the banks was a `fishing cottage` called Pendwllyn, it was built by Richard Venables Kyrke the  son of RK who came to the area c 1775. Actually it was quite a large place and in a lovely area.
Pendwllyn was also known as the Boathouses, and was later converted into 8 cottages still known with that name.

Brynmally Hall.
 The hall was designed by architect Thomas Penley Penson for Richard Kirk whose daughter Frances he married.
Thomas Clayton bought the Brynmally estate from the assignees of Messrs James  and George Kyrke, sons of Richard Kyrke in 1849.  From then till his death he administered an extensive estate in Broughton, part of the estate was Pendwllyn Farm.

Pigotts Directory 1832.
Nobility and Gentry.
Kyrke George Esq. Brynmally.
Kyrke James Esq. Glascoed.
Kyrke Richard Esq. Summerhill.

I do have another book with more snippets, and will take a look at that later.
Attchached is a drawing of Brynmally Hall dated 1850






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Online wilcoxon

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 07 September 10 09:54 BST (UK) »
A little more from another source.
1765
Charles Roe came to Wales from Macclesfield to mine copper at Anglesey.
1770
James Venables was charged in the rate books for Cae Hico pit at Broughton
1771.
Brynmally colliery was acquired by Roe and Venables. Charles Roe had lived in a property called Summerhill in Macclesfield and it’s thought that this gave the name to the area known as Summerhill in Gwersyllt.
1775
Richard Kyrk came to the area.
1784
James Venables died in October aged 84.
1795
Brynmally Estate acquired by Richard Kyrk and Brynmally Hall  was built by Thomas Penson his son in law.
1812
Richard Kyrk exchanged a deed with Sir Watkin Williams Wynn exchanging land at Ruabon for land in Broughton which included a tenement called Pendwll.
1828
James Kyrke excavated part of the Offa`s Dyke in Frith to make a road.. Many finds were made which proved local knowledge of the Roman occupation in the area.
1839
Richard Kirk died aged 91 on 13th Seot at Gwresyllt Hill, the name of his house.
Lens named Brynmally and Brynmally colliery  were left to his son George. He also had a son Richard and a grandson who adopted the name Venables Kyrk .
Richard Venables Kyrke jnr lived at Pendwllyn , one of his daighters married John Dickenson a Wrexham surgeon, another daughter was the wife of Thomas Penson who designed many buildings in Wrexham.
1842
George Kyrke was in financial difficulty and his holdings were mortgaged.
1844
Richard Venables Kyrke still lived at Pendwllyn.
1849
Brynmally Colliery and estate sold to Thomas Clayton by the Kyrke brothers James and George.
1849
James Kyrke became bankrupt on the 13th January
1883
Nant Y Ffrith  house was enlarged by Richard Venables Kyrke.
 Photo attached.

 I’ve looked till 1940 and there’s no more mentions of Kyrke  - I hope this has been of some use to you.



From your first post, do you mean Richard and Ellen ?

Also, if anybody happens to know the fate of any of the twelve children of Richard and Fanny, in particular, which one was the father of Richard Venables KYRKE, you would save me the long  trip from the Cambridge area for the task of checking the several possible christening registers.
Richard KIRK was born at Chapel-en-le-Frith in about 1747, married Ellen VENABLES at Prestbury, Cheshire in 1771 and at some time moved to the Wrexham area. They had a family of twelve children, born between 1775 and 1792, five boys: Henry (1775, no issue), Thomas (1777, no issue), James (1778), George (1780) and Richard (1792
Census information is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline Adnepos_Iacobi

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 07 September 10 13:56 BST (UK) »
wilcoxon, thank you very much for all that material. I would never have found it! Amplifying your findings, I can add the following:

According to family, George KYRKE (1780-1859) married a Miss ROE, presumably a relation of the Charles ROE who moved from Summerhill, Macclesfield to first Anglesy then I assume to the Wrexham area in that he bought Brynmally Colliery. Summerhill is a common name but I guess Charles ROE actually came from Summerhill, Alderley Edge near Macclesfield; copper was mined on the Edge so a move to Anglesey could be explained if he had lived there.

I'm interested that a contributor to the Broughton History Group knew/knows that Richard Venables KYRKE was the grandson of Richard Kyrk (KIRK, 1747-1839). As previously mentioned, I haven't identifed the parents of Richard Venables KYRKE. Maybe the contributor assumed that with such an unusual name he had to be a descendant of Richard KIRK and his wife Ellen VENABLES but it would be less than a fair assumption to specify him being a grandson because he could equally have been a great grandson. So it's possible the contributor had or has my missing information. Any help here greatly appreciated!

I made a mistake in my first entry on this string of messages, it should have read:

Also, if anybody happens to know the fate of any of the twelve children of Richard and Ellen (Fanny WARBRICK was the wife of Richard Venables KYRKE), in particular, which one was the father of Richard Venables KYRKE, you would save me the long  trip from the Cambridge area for the task of checking the several possible christening registers (and even then with no assurance of success).  Richard KIRK was born at Chapel-en-le-Frith in about 1747, married Ellen VENABLES at Prestbury, Cheshire in 1771 and at some time moved to the Wrexham area. They had a family of twelve children, born between 1775 and 1792, five boys: Henry (1775, no issue), Thomas (1777, no issue), James (1778), George (1780) and Richard (1792).

Regarding the fate of the Kyrkes in the Wrexham area, I think the connection was severed when Richard Venables KYRKE died at Hawarden in 1899, although his elder son Richrd Henry Venables KYRKE died in the Monmouth area in 1925. Daughter Dora married Joseph DRAKE, of Wexford. I lose track of his daughter Fanny and think she must have died young. And his younger son Arthur Venables KYRKE moved away to Chard, Somerset. I am not aware of descendants of any other line from Richard KIRK (1747-1839) other than those of the above Richard Venable KYRKE..

Powell (NTT) Hallam (DBY) Nadin (DBY) Hartley (Ancoats) Beech (Kirk Sandal) Potter (DBY)

Offline Adnepos_Iacobi

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 07 September 10 14:07 BST (UK) »
Charles ROE was born in Castleton, Derbyshire, not too far from the birthplace of Thomas KIRK (1747-1839). He seems to be a celebrity in the mining world. See

http://www.derbyscc.org.uk/alderley/history_biographies.php#cr
Powell (NTT) Hallam (DBY) Nadin (DBY) Hartley (Ancoats) Beech (Kirk Sandal) Potter (DBY)

Offline will1976

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Re: Kyrkes at Gwersyllt
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 31 October 10 23:22 GMT (UK) »
Family of Margaret Kirk who married John Dickinson (whose daughter Mary married a Palin)

http://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=palinfamily&view=0&pid=995&ver=197