Regina Levy

[Sharon01]

Hi,

The 1871 census has a Jacob Levy aged 16 and down a cigar maker born in Holland as are all of the family.

The are living in Dorset Street Whitechapel.

Father is down as Levy Levy 42 Cap maker
Mother Udoc 41
Siblings are Isaac 12, Ester 10, Aaron 6, Ada 4.

There is a lodger with them Moses Cooperman?  60 Cigar maker.

I know his age does not fit but worth a look.

Sharon

[JustinL]

Nice idea Sharon.

His widowed mother, Julia, was living with Esther, Aaron and Adelaide at 4 Bell Lane in 1881.

Justin

[Mollyetty]

I'd spotted Julia before but had no way of linking her to Jacob. I guess there's no way of checking the Levy Levy family without Jacob's marriage certificate. Would a 12 year old be working in a cigar factory? Maybe they have both boys' ages wrong.

My father remembers Elias, Jacob's son, having lots of cousins which suggests the whole family came over together rather than Jacob on his own. Of course they could be Schwarb cousins.

I'm ordering the marriage certificate as you read this.

 Sadly I think they left the Hebrew behind in Holland. Another family story tells that Elias and Lewis, Jacob's sons, had to attend the synagogue in order to meet the demands of a relative's will. The person next to them had to show them which way up to hold their prayer book. As I said, they weren't  keen on education or religion.

Thank you both for the work. Now I'll have to wait for that certificate.

Pat

[JustinL]

The cousins may have been the numerous children of Esther's sister, Rebecca, and her Dutch husband, Joseph Kroesen (b. 1852).

Do you know the names of Jacob's grandchildren? I'm looking for names that repeat themselves through the generations.

Justin

[Sharon01]

There is a private tree on another site that has your Levy family and also has Regina married to a Saragoussi, is this your tree?

Sharon

[Mollyetty]

Not much joy there I think:

 Elias had my Dad, Elias Edward, Lewis had three daughters, Florence, Lily and Sadie, Sarah had one son, Lewis and Kate had Esther and Jack.

 Elias is the name of Esther Schwab's  father,. That leaves Lewis and Jack. I notice all the Schwabs that I've found had daughters called Regina but I guess that's after the Queen.

The Schwabs turn up in the 1851 census with two daughters born in Amsterdam so no marriage certificate there. They lived in the same house as the Levys, ! Freeman St, in the 1881 census so I guess the cousins probably are all Schwabs.

I'm hoping the 1871 Jacob is the lodger with the Dearments. I want to start researching Dutch people.


Sharon,

 Yes that's me. I took Saragoussi off last night. Maybe it takes time to work though the system. Would you like to see it? I can make it public again. I just made it private a couple of days ago because I've started adding photos and that seems a bit personal.

 Pat
Pat

[JustinL]

Hello Pat,

Does your father have a Hebrew name or were the family secular by then? I only ask because most Ashkenazi Jews would not name a child after a living relative such as themselves. However, that naming custom only applies to the Hebrew name - I think.

Regina would equate to queen, which is Malkah in Hebrew, a common woman's name. The name was given in memory of some recently deceased family member.

I tried to find the family in '51 without any luck. What were the names of the elder Amsterdam-born daughters?

Justin

[JustinL]

Pat,

Do you have a date of death for Jacob? Was it in Q1 of 1926 in Poplar?

What about Esther? Q2 1929?

It may be possible to locate their graves in East London.

Justin

[Mollyetty]

Hello Justin,

In 1851 the Schwabs are at 20 Butler St. Elias is down as Elias Swale, a hawker of cakes and the two daughters are Sophia and Hannah. In the 1861 they've been mistranscribed as Alice and Richard Schwarp! They're in Windsor St, Bishopsgate.

I think the Levys at least were completely secular by the time my father was named. I notice that Abraham Schwab married in church. His only son is Richard.

Rebecca Kroesen, Esther's sister, the one with the enormous family, seems to have some Dutch/German names, but they're all girls except for Samuel, b. 1877.  

The two older girls, born in Amsterdam, and Sarah seem to disappear. I can't find marriages or census listings. Schwab is such an easily mistranscribed name I tried just the first names and place of birth, but nothing. Maybe they went back to Holland.

Abraham, Rebecca and Esther all name one of their daughters Sarah in 1884, 1883 and 1891 respectively. Maybe they are named for Sarah Schwarb.

I can't see any other recurring names. I suspect the whole Jewish connection had disappeared fairly quickly in what must have been a harsh life and they were just choosing names they liked the sound of.

Oh, I just saw your next post. Both of their deaths are uncertain. My father says Esther took him to see Gandhi. That would have to have been in 1931. But he also says she died in Quickett St, Bow when he was about 7 which would be 1928/9. I have no idea if that's in Poplar.

I have no idea either about Jacob. My father, remembers him so it's at least three years after 1921 and before Esther went and presumably also in Quickett St. I'll go through all the possible deaths, checking the ages. Maybe only those two will fit.

Pat