COLWILL/COLWELL Cornwall/Devon Border-help gratefully received

[dukewm]

Hello JaneyCanuck,

Thanks for posting your l/r thoughts. You might have something there.
If the databases you are referring to are images of the original parish records, or even transcription errors, it is easy to understand that the "l"'s and "r"'s could be mistaken for each other and it is also easy to see that the "iv" in Coliver could actually have been a "w", whereby Coliver and Colwell are virtually interchangeable.

The Parish Records I have reviewed from the 1500's thru the 1700's are very difficult to read to begin with (being in script of various qualities of penmanship), so errors in interpretation/transcription must be common.

[JaneyCanuck]

I tend to think that Colliver and Colwell are different names, but they might well have started out the same. Some historical/linguistic research would be needed for that! The Colliver name survives today in a half-dozen telephone listings in Cornwall (57 entries on the electoral roll at 192.com, some of them duplicates, and quite a few more outside Cornwall). With the name being almost unique to Cornwall in early records (e.g. the GRO index), one might think it originated there as a variant, maybe.

In the 1700s names were still unsettled. Just for the names mentioned in my sig line, I have several versions for several of them. Colliver and Colwell sound further apart than those examples, but in local pronunciation they might not be, especially given the common l/r confusions.

But do get in touch with the St Germans OPC who would have access to the originals or images, to check the accuracy of the transcriptions. Or fizzybubble who posts here, the OPC for some nearby parishes, might be able to help. (She's helped me loads with my Cornwall people!)

[steveinconcord]

I, too, am having great difficulty finding my Colwill/Colwell ancestors and I, too, am looking in Cornwall & Devon. John Colwill & Grace Trawin were married on 24 Dec 1826, we think in Devon, but don't know for sure. Their UK-born children were William (b. 2 June 1827; d. 6 Mar 1828), Tamsin/Tamzin (b. 05 Dec 1829), Elizabeth (b. 04 Oct 1831), & Mary Ann (b. 15 October 1833 in Burton Salmon, Yorkshire). But perhaps Mary Ann wasn't born in the U.K. Sometime between 1832 & 1835, they immigrated to the U.S., but we can't find them on any passenger lists. Interestingly, there is a Grace Trewin, baptized 18 Sep 1803 in Week St. Mary parish in Cornwall, dau. of John Trewin and Susanna Bray. Rustyrex mentioned descent from the Colwell/Colwill family of Cornwall and Devon, specifically the Poundstock and Week St. Mary areas. Could there be a connection here?

[JaneyCanuck]

hello Steve and welcome!

Actually for Grace Trewin in Cornwall you have a choice

1803 St Mary Week: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3FQ-WG3
1804 Kilkhampton: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWXL-TWL
(probably a replacement child for 1802:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=3301219)

The name Trawin, on the other hand, seems essentially to be unique to a particular area of Devon (until people spread out in the mid-19th century); search for the surname at http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
and you will find it almost exclusively in South Molton / Barnstaple (although the OPC site shows one birth in St Austell in 1786).

A John Colwill was baptised in Week St Mary in 1792:
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=947036

However if you search for Colw*ll in South Molton at FreeBMD you'll find a number there as well, and also in Barnstaple (and elsewhere in Devon).

Can you say how you have the marriage date for the couple - info on a record in the US, or a family bible or such?

Is this John (66) and Grace (69) in the 1870 US census?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M629-HN7
image: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11758-87149-88?cc=1438024

... daughter Elizabeth Simpkins died 1897 Ohio?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F6JL-H55

If the family was from Cornwall/Devon it would seem relatively unlikely a child was born in Yorkshire; what is the source of that info?


oh, so funny ... just before I pressed Post, I got a phone call ... a wrong number. We have just moved, and someone else seems to have had this number quite recently. I got the name of the person the caller was trying to reach and did a little google and found her parents' recent obituaries ... and she has a son whose surname is Colwell. You could go your whole life without hearing a name, and then ...

[steveinconcord]

Yes, you have the right family with daughter Elizabeth Simpkins. The marriage and birth data came from the family bible, photos of which are on Ancestry - look for my "Mosier family tree Jan 2013". The jpegs are way too big to post here. I assume it is Grace who is doing the writing in the bible, and her spelling of Trawin is quite clear. I'm not sure where the Yorkshire birth came from - it is the weakest piece of data I have.

I had found both those Grace Trewins you mention (1803 & 1804) and had sent them to one of my cousins in Cornwall along with my Colwill family data to see if she could find any connections (this cousin is from a different line - not connected to Colwill - I have a lot of Cornish ancestry). At first she came up dry, but just this minute I got another email from her that she has found the mother (Grace Trewin b. 1803, I assume) and the children in Week St. Mary - says she is sending me the records. But she also says that she is having problems on the Colwill side. (My cousin also noted that Grace Trewin b. 26th Aug 1804 Kilkhampton to Lawrence Trewin and Jane Heydon appears to have died in 1888 at St Dominic.)

I don't know where I got the notion that John and Grace were married in Devon. I have that in my tree but if I don't get that confirmed soon, it's coming out.

It's interesting how this family line came to me. My gr-grandmother's bible said that her mother was Jamsin C., born in England, and died of typhoid in 1862. Took me years to figure out that it was Tamsin, not Jamsin, and to find the Colwill family in Ohio. And now it's taking years more to find the family in England.

Thanks so much for your suggestions - I'll follow up and keep the board posted on results.

Steve

[steveinconcord]

Well, I found John Colwill in Week St Mary parish in Cornwall, as well as his wife Grace Trewin, and I learned a lot in the process. My cousin Denise in Cornwall searched the OPC database for me and found them, and then showed me how she did it. I also learned to treat dates in family bibles with a certain amount of caution. Grace Trewin spelled her name Trawin in the bible, and then entered the wrong dates for her marriage, the birth & infant death of her first child, and the death date of her husband (which someone had already corrected in her bible). She also used what appears to be a nickname (but entered it with an ambiguous spelling) for her daughter Tamsin, who was christened Thomasine. We still don't know much about John Colwill and are still searching, but he married Grace Trewin on 24 Dec 1827 at Week St Mary parish church. John's residence was Whitstone and he was a Carpenter by trade. Witnesses to the wedding were Mary Broad and Thomas Trewin. Before emmigrating to the U.S. around 1833-1835, John and Grace had children
 
William Colwill bap 21 Sept 1828 Week St Mary
Thomasine Colwill bap 27 Dec 1829 Week St Mary
Elizabeth Colwill bap 11 Oct 1831 Week St Mary.

The infant William Colwill was buried 10 Mar 1829 at Week St Mary.

I am descended from Thomasine (Tamsin) Colwill. I find it interesting that one set of my 2nd gr-grandparents came to the U.S. from Cornwall in 1842. Then their son married the daughter of Thomasine, also from Cornwall, 16 years after Thomasine's death from typhoid in 1862. 

[UpstairsDown]

Hi Steve,

I hope you have had some success in rounding up your Colwells and Colwills!

Rootschat members are wonderful people, who will provide you with a great deal of help due to a shared passion for research.

Just a note; I have found Colwell spelt as Colwill, Colwell, Collwell, Corwell, Cauldwell (on older records), Collwill and Colwelle. I think part of the blame lies in a combination of the local accent, no standardised spelling and parish clerks and clergymen who may come from outside the area and could not decipher too well what their congregation were saying (this certainly was the case with the Corwells) so if they are not under one spelling they may well be registered or recorded under another.

Joy!

[trewinb]

Hi Steve,

I am a descendant of the Trewins of Week St Mary and was interested in Grace who is noted as a witness in some of our family events. The family house was called Newpark and still exists not far from the parish border with Whitstone. My ancestors come from both parishes and, as dissenters, were not overly particular as to which church (Whitstone or Week St. Mary) registered the marriages and births. This complicated my searches but I eventually received substantial help from fellow Trewins in Australia and Canada.
Most of the family including the Broads and Kinsmans by marriage, emigrated to Canada and Australia with the ships organised by the Bible Christian movement. Some used the Canada passage to carry on to Wisconsin.

I would be happy to provide any further information on the Trewins.

[AFD58]

I recall a William Colwill a Cornishman residing in Blackpool Lancashire in the 1950s