Author Topic: Despair Loveridge / Smith  (Read 18678 times)

Offline NettieS

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 17:54 GMT (UK) »


Hi Jenny and Sylvie,

If I remember correctly Jenny you are the lady who has a family tree on GRU with Despair in, both you and Sylvie should PM chinacharlie as he is related to both the Loveridges and Smiths.
Neither china or myself know who Scally is or why she is interested in Despair and his family.
Regards
Lyne.
Bramwell -  Derbyshire and Bolton
Pottinger -  Gloucestershire, Berkshire
James- Gloucestershire
Rawley, Wheeler - Middlesex
Nicholls, Nichols -  Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire
Lee, Porter - Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire
Bowers, Coxall, Coe, Dawkins, Hawkins, Horspoole, Rule - Cambridgeshire
Stoughton - Bedfordshire
Stewart - Stirlingshire,  Glasgow and Edingburgh
Tulloch - Orkney Islands
Liddell - Stirlingshire, Lanarkshire
Tulloch, Wilson, Stevenson, Baxter, Muir, Boag - Scotland

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Offline sylv57

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 18:38 GMT (UK) »
thanks for that netti. funny thing i lived in wisbech in cambridgeshire for 13 years and only just moved back to essex. i do know there are a lot of loveridges in cambridgeshire but spread abt
sylvie
lamb [chillingstone lamb] buckley  loveridge stone webbs browns

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Offline ScallyW

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 19:24 GMT (UK) »

Neither china or myself know who Scally is or why she is interested in Despair and his family.
Regards
Lyne.

My interest isn't direct, I'm afraid.

I have an ancestor (a third cousin 3x removed) who I believed married a Counseletta Loveridge in 1903 in Bedfordshire and I'm trying to trace her family.  I believe that she may be the person named in my very first post and listed as a sibling to Despair.

That said, I am doing a family tree of a friend who comes from Hodgkins/Boswell and there is a possible Loveridge connection there as well through marriage.  So, being a naturally nosy person, I am trying to firm up the details I now have on the many Loveridges found throughout Worcs, Warks, Staffs, Beds, Cambs and see who is related to who and see if somehow her family and mine share some sort of authentic connection, however slim or distant that connection is.

Apart from which, the Loveridges are a fascinating lot as they seem to be everywhere so they make good research material.

Regards
ScallyW



Paternal family names: Lee & Smith
Maternal family names: Hollis, Lambert, Donaghue & Osborne.

Offline NettieS

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 16 November 10 19:35 GMT (UK) »


Hi Sylvie,

Yes there are alot of Loveridges and Smiths in Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire especially Willingham,  some of my family are very good friends with the Loveridges.  ;D

Scally, I think you need to PM chinacharlie as well because he has alot of information that he may be able to pass on to you.

Regards
Lyne
Bramwell -  Derbyshire and Bolton
Pottinger -  Gloucestershire, Berkshire
James- Gloucestershire
Rawley, Wheeler - Middlesex
Nicholls, Nichols -  Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire
Lee, Porter - Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire
Bowers, Coxall, Coe, Dawkins, Hawkins, Horspoole, Rule - Cambridgeshire
Stoughton - Bedfordshire
Stewart - Stirlingshire,  Glasgow and Edingburgh
Tulloch - Orkney Islands
Liddell - Stirlingshire, Lanarkshire
Tulloch, Wilson, Stevenson, Baxter, Muir, Boag - Scotland

Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #31 on: Monday 24 October 11 09:20 BST (UK) »
I have an ancestor (a third cousin 3x removed) who I believed married a Counseletta Loveridge in 1903 in Bedfordshire and I'm trying to trace her family.  I believe that she may be the person named in my very first post and listed as a sibling to Despair.


This is an old thread so everyone may have lost interest in it!

I don't think that the Councellette Loveridge who married Woodlock Smith at Bedford in 1903 is the same Councellete aged 3 in 1881.

In censuses:

1901 census
Van , Clapham Rd, Bedford
Woodlock Smith head marr 30 Grinder
Loveridge Smith wife 29
Christopher Smith son 11
Morany Smith dau 5
All born Bedford

1891 census
The Cock Inn, St Paul, Bedford
Counsy Smith Lodger marr 20 (female) b Beds
Woodlock Smith lodger marr 22 Grinder b Beds
Christopher Smith lodger 13 months b Odell Beds

It looks to me as though in 1891 Counsy was Councellette (or however you like to spell it) and the 1903 marriage was a better late than never affair. She appears to have died in Bedford in 1955 aged 82

What do you know about Woodlock? With the unusual name he is presumably connected to Woodlock Smith born c1834 at Biggleswade but he doesn't appear in 1871 or 1881 with that Woodlock. There is another Woodlock Smith age 57 in 1891 lodging at Kneesworth Cambs, born Bedford, a travelling grinder, who might be connected to the Woodlock who married in 1903

Not my family I hasten to add, just helping someone on another board

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline ScallyW

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 05 November 11 23:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi David,

This is a confusing one because due mainly to the fact that Woodlock is such an unusual name, one would think it easy to tie down people of this name.  There aren't that many Woodlock Smiths about so any mentioned, rationally, have to be one of two people... three at a push.

There is a birth register for a Woodlock Smith in 1887 in Malling, Kent.  Having not found a baptism record for him, it's hard to say how old he was when the birth was registered but he's found again in 1901 at Lambourne, Essex, aged 15 (1886) with his parents Walter Smith and Trailey (nee Taylor) along with a long list of other gypsies amongst which are Scarrits, Grays and Shoesmiths.  A couple of Walter's brothers are listed there as well with their families, amongst which is James and Rosa Smith who were my paternal great grandparents.  He's also listed in 1891 at Offham, Kent with his parents and siblings.

There is a death register in 1948, West Ham, Essex with DOB as 1887 as calculated by his age of 61 years at time of death.

The other Woodlock Smith (c 1833/4, Biggleswade) is the uncle of Walter Smith (Woodlock's father).  He's the one listed in 1871 at Kensington, London with wife Justina (Buckley) and 1881 at Wanstead, Essex with family.  There is a death record for a Woodlock Smith in 1882 at West Ham, Essex aged 48 (c1834) so he cannot be the person listed in 1891 at Kneesworth, Cambs even though his age would be spot on at that stage.


The Woodlock Smith listed in 1891 and 1901 that you quote show differing DOBs, but only by a few years (1869 & 1871) and that's not so odd in this game, and if the marriage record I found showed a Woodlock Smith marrying a Councie Lette Loveridge, and this couple are the people you quote, it could explain why in the 1901 census, his wife is down as Loveridge Smith instead of her real forename.  But.  What are the chances there are two Woodlock Smiths who both marry Councelette Loveridges?  Pretty small, I imagine and if we are to assume that the people in the census records from 1891 and 1901 are the same (and the presence of a son named Christopher in both implies they are), why would his wife use the name Loveridge if that wasn't her maiden name?  So, we can assume that the marriage I found refers to another Woodlock Smith than the one I first thought it was but what strikes me as odd is there is no other reference to him.  I can't find a birth or death record for him, nor any census records with his parents to tie down who he might be.    There is a tree on Ancestry that shows a Woodlock Smith married to 'Loveridge' but with no mention on a son Christopher although there is a daughter noted by the name of Irene (Morany?) and a daughter of this child was given a middle name of Concilette.  Nothing is substantiated with records though so unfortunately it counts as hearsay.

I did wonder if he could be a son of Woodlock Smith (1834) but if so, why doesn't he appear in the 1871 or 1881 census?  All a bit of a mystery, I'm afraid.

There is a marriage in 1917, West Ham for a Woodlock Smith to a Betsy Smith so instead of 'my' Woodlock Smith marrying young (16) to Councilette Loveridge, he could be the one who married later (30) to Betsy.  The Woodlock Smith born 1929 has his mother's maiden name down as Smith as well so that ties in with the above marriage.

The only Woodlock Smiths I've found as far as births go is the 1887 one and one in 1929 West Ham, Essex but this is also a death record in 1930 for an infant so presumibly that's the same one.
Paternal family names: Lee & Smith
Maternal family names: Hollis, Lambert, Donaghue & Osborne.

Offline FionaO

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #33 on: Monday 27 August 12 18:40 BST (UK) »
Not sure if anyone reads this thread any longer but I'm sending a message with hope.

I wonder if you have any connection with my GGGrandfather.  He seems to use the names James Savey or Sabey or Saby SMITH or Harry SMITH or James called Henry SMITH born in Biggleswade (see below for dates, etc). 

1882 marriage cert James Savey SMITH aged 21 (B=1861), father Charles SMITH both Horse dealers. Annie Elizabeth RAWBOTTOM, father George RAWBOTTOM. Battle Bridge, Kings X (now Islington)

1888 birth cert of daughter Florence Elizabeth Lucy SMITH, Islington. Father Harry SMITH. Mother Mary Ann SULLIVAN.

1892 Belgium immigration James-Savey called Henri SMITH DOB of 27 October 1860 or on the same document Henry (James) SMITH born 1856 both in Biggleswade, Beds.  Same doc his parents listed as, Father Charles SMITH and mother Annie BARNABY of Biggleswade.  Also lists 6 children (inc twin boys).  Horse Trader.


1911 census born 1962 James Sabey SMITH, Cemetary Road, Doncaster, Horse dealer.  Wife Mary Ann S SMITH

1920 death cert aged 58 (B=1862) James Saby SMITH, Doncaster, Horse slaughterer.  Wife M A Smith

Mother of 3 children, including 2 twin boys is Annie SALOMON (may be Belgian phonetic spelling?)
Mother of 2 children is Mary Ann SULLIVAN
Another 17 children according to the 1911 census

I have found one other James Sabey SMITH but he was born in Huntingdon, Huntingdonshire in 1870 and although I suspect they are connected I struggle with the name Smith to narrow it down.

Any help would be appreciated - even if only to say there's no connection to your family, though quite frankly I'm loving the Loveridge names.
Turner, Smith, Gibson, Harrison, Young, Boucher, Howells

Offline king otg

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #34 on: Monday 10 December 12 14:05 GMT (UK) »
Here are some census references, baptisms and marriages which are connected to the people named in the above discussion:

CAM Fen Drayton bp1/11/1865 Elijah s/o Humphrey/Matilda SMITH, gipsy vagrant

1871CAM-1580/10/12 Humphrey SMITH (28) gipsy, Matilda LOVERIDGE (25) +4

1881HUN-1603/90/28 Humphrey (44) e-w.dlr, Matilda (37) +3

HUN Bluntisham bp20/4/1903 Daisy d/o Elijah/Consuletta SMITH, of Buckden

William & Salome SMITH lived with Noah and Maria LOVERIDGE in 1841:

1841HUN-0450/9//2/3 Noah (25) Maria (20) +0

Noah and Maria were the parents of Joseph and John LOVERIDGE:

NTS Towcester bp27/8/1843 John s/o Noah/Maria LOVERIDGE, pedlar of T

NTS Towcester bp3/9/1848 Joseph s/o Noah/Maria LOVERIDGE, pedlar of T

John LOVERIDGE appears in 1891 as follows:

1891SFK-1445/141/21 John (36) trav’g rzr.gr & um.mkr, Saney LOVERIDGE (32) +7

Joseph LOVERIDGE is a parent in the following baptism:

BDF Bedford St Paul bp6/3/1866 Stephen s/o Joseph (dec’d)/Elizabeth LOVERIDGE, travs of Barn Yard

One of the daughters of William and Salome SMITH had a name which models for Despair LOVERIDGE’s wife in:

1881HUN-1611/99/3 Despair (24) tin brazier & hkr, Chrysane (24) +11

HUN Abbots Ripton bp3/10/1830 Crisaney d/o William/Salome SMITH, Gipsey of A.R

It is too old to be the baptism of Despair’s wife, but this is Despair:

CAM Witcham bp20/4/1856 Spares s/o Montague/Elizabeth SMITH, ch.btr, trav of nfa

Census 1851EX-1766/434/15 Stephen LOVERIDGE (31) trav, Silvester THORPE (29) +5

Census 1861EX-1121/25/42 Stephen LOVERAGE (40) mt.mkr, spouse Silvesta SHAW (42)+12

BKM Woughton on the Green bp14/1/1816 Stephen s/o Solomon/Mary LOVERIDGE, dlr in woodenware of Towcester

HUN Bluntisham bp11/1/1846 Christiana d/o Stephen/Sylvestre LOVERIDGE, gipsies of B, trav salesman

CAM Bourn bp21/12/1843 Counseletta d/o Stephen/Silvesta LOVERIDGE, tinker of Towcester

CAM Caxton bp12/12/1841 Stephen s/o Stephen/Silvester LOVERIDGE, bsk.mkr of Towcester

CAM Ickleton bp4/2/1849 Sentina d/o Stephen/Silvester LOVERIDGE, trav wr.wkr from Towcester

Related baptisms and marriages follow:

CAM Chatteris bp27/2/1876 (b24/7/1875) Julia Ann d/o -/Sabina LOVERIDGE, spin

CAM Chatteris bp27/2/1876 (b2/4/1874) Elizabeth d/o -/Sabina LOVERIDGE, spin

CAM Chatteris bp27/2/1876 (b2/6/1872) John s/o -/Sabina LOVERIDGE, spin

CAM Chatteris m29/4/1876 Sabina LOVERIDGE (no age given) (fa: Montague – lab) = John SAVAGE (no age given) lab (fa: Robert – lab)

EX Eastwood bp13/8/1911 Elijah s/o –/Elizabeth LOVERIDGE, flr.slr of E.

EX Eastwood bp13/8/1911 Elias s/o -/Elizabeth LOVERIDGE, flr.slr of E

EX Eastwood bp13/8/1911 Charles s/o -/Elizabeth LOVERIDGE, flr.slr of E

EX Eastwood bp13/8/1911 Stephen s/o -/Elizabeth LOVERIDGE, flr.slr of E

EX Eastwood bp3/5/1914 (b7/9/1913) Albert s/o -/Elizabeth LOVERIDGE, hkr of E

EX Eastwood bp3/5/1914 (b17/5/1902) Queenie d/o -/Elizabeth LOVERIDGE, hkr of E

EX Eastwood bp19/9/1915 (10/4) Rosina d/o -/Eliza LOVERIDGE, hkr of E

EX Eastwood m27/11/1922 Queenie LOVERIDGE (full) (fa: blank) = Pender BUCKLEY (full) hkr (fa: Lazarus – hkr)

EX Eastwood m26/12/1931 Elias LOVERIDGE (26) (fa: Stephen STONE – hkr) = Matilda    LIVERMORE (24) (fa: John – hkr)

EX Eastwood bp2/7/1922 Elizabeth d/o Elijah STONE/Elizabeth LOVERIDGE, hkr of E

EX Little Totham pbp12/5/1891 Arthur s/o Spares/Lanie LOVERIDGE, tinker of L.T. Plains

TL

Offline orphan-annie

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Re: Despair Loveridge / Smith
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 08 August 15 18:14 BST (UK) »
Hi there. I realise this is a fairly old thread but am hoping somebody could help?
My children are from the Loveridge/Stone family and I have been trying to trace their family back for them. Their grandfather was Brian Norman Loveridge ( now sadly deceased) and their Great Grandfather was Elijah (Sonny) Loveridge, son of Elizabeth Loveridge and (I assume) Stephen Stone. After this is where it becomes confusing for me! Brian was my father-in-law and he sometimes spoke to me about his past/family but other than that he wasn't a man of many words lol. I remember him mentioning that technically he was a Stone but that somewhere along the line some of the 'Stone' family became Loveridge's as one of the mothers gave her children her maiden name,refusing to give them their paternal name in protest that her partner would not marry her. I am hoping that someone could kindly fill in for me as to who were the parents of Stephen Stone,so that I can continue to trace back? Additionally,if anyone is tracing to the present,I am happy to help  if I can with info relating to the two sons of Elijah (Sonny) Loveridge and Margaret Jennings (Ronald and Brian).