Author Topic: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas  (Read 9744 times)

Offline Bellevue

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 19 December 10 18:32 GMT (UK) »
hi
i reside in Australia and i just started tracing my wifes irish ancestors her gg grandfather Patrick Phelan married Margaret O'Donnell in Clerihan, county of Tipperary approx 1876

i haven't been able to find any other info on their families
is it possible that this Margaret O'donnell is connected to the O'Donnells you have tracked

regards
neale

It's possible but until I get really 'into' my O' Donnell branch, I wont be any to confirm!

Can you give me any other info relating to this Margaret?
Cleary - Clonmel / Ardgeeha / Chancellorstown / Garryntemple---------------O' Donnell - Clerihan------------McGrath - Powerstown---------------Cullinan - Scrothea, Clonmel----------------Flemming - Clerihan----------------Brien - Monkstown----------------Dunne - Poulnagunoge  / Gladstone St, Clonmel-------------Dunn - New York------------O' Neill - Kilsheelan

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Offline Bellevue

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 19 December 10 18:41 GMT (UK) »
I don't have any more information on Catherine's siblings but here is what I can get from the censuses. Shanballard I think is a misspelling of Shanballyard. Looking at Griffiths Valuation there was an entry for Andrew O'Donnell in 1850 in Shanballyard

see Griffiths Valuation Entry http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&PlaceID=1180076&county=Tipperary,%20south%20riding&barony=Iffa%20&%20offa,%20east&parish=Inishlounaght&townland=%3Cb%3EShanballyard%3C/b%3E

In the 1901 and 1911 Censuses there is an Edmund O'Donnell living in Shanballyard aged 40 who would be the right age to be a sibling of Catherine. Also his first born boy is called Andrew which would imply his fathers name was Andrew

see 1901 Census entry http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=o%27donnell&firstname=&county=Tipperary&townland=Shanballyard&ded=Ballyclerahan&age=&sex=&search=Search&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

and

1911 Census entry http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=o%27donnell&firstname=&county=Tipperary&townland=Shanballyard&ded=Ballyclerahan&age=&sex=&search=Search&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

In 1826 tithes there is a William Donnell in Shanballyard
see: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/tipp/InishlounaghtTithes.htm

As I've discovered the past few weeks there's ALOT of O' Donnell's around this area. I have two death certs for an Andrew O' Donnell, d.1870 & d.1898. I still have to confirm which is my Andrew! (Its hard to get the time!!) I'll should have it sorted early next year hopefully!
Cleary - Clonmel / Ardgeeha / Chancellorstown / Garryntemple---------------O' Donnell - Clerihan------------McGrath - Powerstown---------------Cullinan - Scrothea, Clonmel----------------Flemming - Clerihan----------------Brien - Monkstown----------------Dunne - Poulnagunoge  / Gladstone St, Clonmel-------------Dunn - New York------------O' Neill - Kilsheelan

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Offline PatCro

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 19 December 10 18:49 GMT (UK) »
Shanballyard is not that big an area and has had only one o'donnell falily living there since 1820 from the records. On either of those death certs did it say Shanballyard?. If they are both then I would suspect father and son. What ages were on the certs?.

Offline Bellevue

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 19 December 10 19:40 GMT (UK) »
Shanballyard is not that big an area and has had only one o'donnell falily living there since 1820 from the records. On either of those death certs did it say Shanballyard?. If they are both then I would suspect father and son. What ages were on the certs?.

Sorry I should have been more specific, I meant there is alot of O' Donnell's in the Clerihan area.

Looking at the death cert again I was mistaken, I do know which Andrew is William's father. My g.g.g grandfather Andrew O' Donnell died 08-Nov-1898, aged 81, the informant was his son and William's brother Edmond.

I also have a death cert for an Andrew O' Donnell (just gives Clerihan as place of death) died 13-Dec-1870 aged 73, he's married and the informant was Patrick O' Donnell of Patrick's Well.

There is also another Andrew O' Donnell died 8-Sep-1928 aged 68 from Clerihan, buried in old Clerihan graveyard. His wife was, Eleanor Slatery died 18-Sep-1933, aged 67.

You said Catherine's father was dead when she married. So she could not be a brother of William.
Cleary - Clonmel / Ardgeeha / Chancellorstown / Garryntemple---------------O' Donnell - Clerihan------------McGrath - Powerstown---------------Cullinan - Scrothea, Clonmel----------------Flemming - Clerihan----------------Brien - Monkstown----------------Dunne - Poulnagunoge  / Gladstone St, Clonmel-------------Dunn - New York------------O' Neill - Kilsheelan

Offline Bellevue

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 19 December 10 19:52 GMT (UK) »
In 1826 tithes there is a William Donnell in Shanballyard
see: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/tipp/InishlounaghtTithes.htm

I'm sure your correct but is Dannill a variation of O' Donnell? I can't find any confirmation of it on the web!
Cleary - Clonmel / Ardgeeha / Chancellorstown / Garryntemple---------------O' Donnell - Clerihan------------McGrath - Powerstown---------------Cullinan - Scrothea, Clonmel----------------Flemming - Clerihan----------------Brien - Monkstown----------------Dunne - Poulnagunoge  / Gladstone St, Clonmel-------------Dunn - New York------------O' Neill - Kilsheelan

Offline annclare

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #14 on: Monday 20 December 10 00:29 GMT (UK) »
In another Tipperary parish I have come across Donnell and Danniel /Daniel surnames  for the same family.

annclare
Kerrisk, Healy, McGuire, Duggan - Kerry and US
Tuohy/Toohey,Gorman, Purcell, Fanning- Holycross Tipperary

Offline PatCro

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #15 on: Monday 20 December 10 20:40 GMT (UK) »
Here is the full extent of what I know. Shanballyard is a 322 acre townland within what was the District Electoral Division of Ballyclerahan. This is in the Barony of Iffa and Offa and the Civil parish of Inishlounacht. In 1850 Andrew O'Donnell was a tenant farmer there with 11 acres. The landlord was John Scully who also lived there.  In 1825 from the Tithe list there was a James Scully living there and a William Donnell (spelt Danniel /Daniel). As these are not Irish names typically found in the area and are phonetically very similar to Donnell it is reasonable to assume that it is Donnell. From her marriage certificate Catherine was Andrew's daughter.

Tracking forward to the 1901 census we find that Edmund O'Donnell aged 40 is the head of family and owner of a farm in Shanballyard. His first born son is named Andrew and there was an Edmund O'Donnell born in 1861 whos father was Andrew. There is no address on the Birth Cert so it is hard to be sure if it is the same Andrew. It says he was baptized in Ardfinnan Parish which is 10km from Shanballyard and his mother is Ellen Wall.  Based on the census data I would assume that Edmund is Catherine's younger brother.

I can't find any trace of Andrew O' Donnell who died 8-Sep-1928 aged 68 or his wife Eleanor in either the 1901 or 1911 Irish census which is odd. In the past I have found that ages on death certs can be fairly suspect. Do you have a town land for them?

Offline Bellevue

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #16 on: Monday 20 December 10 21:49 GMT (UK) »
I'm glad you came to this board! You've got me focused on the O' Donnell's again after some time out!

I never looked at Ardfinnan, as you say its not too far away. Had a quick look and there are quiet a few O' Donnell records. I don't see Edmond O' Donnell born 1861 though. You seam convinced Catherine is a sibling of Edmond and William even though her father is stated as dead by 1889. On Edmond marriage cert 23-Feb-1895, it does not mention his father as being dead. Was it the NORM to state if either the grooms or brides father was dead at time of marriage, or could some slip through the net? I did not locate any birth certs for either Edmond or William, you say Edmond's mother was Ellen Wall, do you know Catherine's mother?

Wait a minute, I just looked at marriage cert of Catherine again, could the transcriber have inserted it wrongly into the computer. Catherine is in the husband column and Patrick is in the Wife column. It says "wife's father dead" maybe it should be 'husbands father dead'. Long shot?

William called his fourth child Ellen (but he married an Ellen too)
Children
Mary
Catherine
Margaret
Ellen
Bridget
Annie
Andrew Christopher 

Sorry, that was a typo,
Andrew O' Donnell died 8-Sep-1828 aged 68 from Clerihan, buried in old Clerihan graveyard. His wife was, Eleanor Slatery died 18-Sep-1833, aged 67.
Cleary - Clonmel / Ardgeeha / Chancellorstown / Garryntemple---------------O' Donnell - Clerihan------------McGrath - Powerstown---------------Cullinan - Scrothea, Clonmel----------------Flemming - Clerihan----------------Brien - Monkstown----------------Dunne - Poulnagunoge  / Gladstone St, Clonmel-------------Dunn - New York------------O' Neill - Kilsheelan

Offline PatCro

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Re: O' DONNELLs of Clonmel, Clerihan, Shanballyard areas
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 21 December 10 16:58 GMT (UK) »
I just noticed that Ellen is the witness on Catherine marriage certificate. Do you know what happened to William?.  As he was the eldest you would have expected him to inherit the farm rather than Edmund. Also as there was a William Donnell in 1825 he was most likely Andrews father and it would be consistent that his first born male would be called William. Also 10 years is a long time in those days between Children. Do you have his marriage certificate and if so what townland is on it. Is it Shanballyard?

The 1901 Census would put Catherine's birth year at 1859 and Edmund's at 1861.

Clerihan is a village rather than a townland. It is in the Civil parish of Newchapel which has 27 townlands. Newchapel is beside the Civil parish of Ballyclerahan which the townland of Shanballyard is in.

Andrew and Eleanor O'Donnell do not appear in either the 1901 or 1911 census. Do you have a townland for them?