Author Topic: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there  (Read 10802 times)

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 23 October 10 15:36 BST (UK) »
I have been in earlier posts wrongly  describing the cross added to the coat of arms as a cross flory.  It should be a cross patonce as it has three points at the end of each arm while the cross flory only has two.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Pistolero

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 21 March 17 16:40 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
It's been a while. But I have wondered if the cross in the top of my ancestor Richard
Edelen's was descended from the cross in the plain shield?

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Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 13:39 GMT (UK) »
As you already know the first set of arms were granted to Crolian Edelen in 1962.  The cross according to Crolian with whom I corresponded for a number of years, was added at the time of the grant to difference them from the original arms of the Middlesex Edlins.  The cross was taken from the arms of the Offley family.  Catherine Offley was the mother of Richard Edelen who emigrated to Maryland in 1663.  The Edelen spelling of the name, as used uniquely in the USA, was also believed to have been derived from Catherine's Germanic spelling of the name reflecting her German upbringing.

Your second shield which bears the single cross I have never come across before.  I suspect from the Edelen spelling of the name that it was created by someone in the USA and has not been granted by the College of Arms.  The use of a second helmet as the crest is also very unusual.  I have come across the crest on that second helmet somewhere but have been unable to recall where.
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 23:09 GMT (UK) »
I would have liked to have met Croilan Edelen. And you are correct in that the name was spelled Edlyn up until it was changed in the one family. Here is an excerpt from my file:
---------------------------
III.    RICHARD EDLYN, Jr. B. 1565 in Pinner Marsh (Harrow-on-the-Hill), Middlesex, England--D. bef. 8/27/1616 in Buckingham, England. Note: "Harrow-on-the-Hill" was a small village with a 200' hill on which stands an ancient church where there once stood an ancient heathen temple. Also in Harrow is Harrow School, an old influential school. Winston Churchhill went to school there. Pinner is likewise a nearby village. They are all now part of Middlesex and it is all a part of greater London.
                      -M-
         MARGARET (?)
ISSUE: (NOTE: The reason for the change in spelling of the last name is, from what I have read, that Margaret was from Prussia and wanted her children to have a more German sounding or looking name so changed it from Edlyn to Edelen).
1. *Phillip Edelen, b. 1598 in Pinner--d. 3/22/1656/57 in Denborn(Buckingham), England. Became a Pastor or Minister of the "Established Church"-m-Catherine Offley (See below).
2. Richard Edelen, died 1699.
3. Alice Edelen.
4. Joane ("Hannah") Edelen, died 1643-m-Richard Nicholas.


IV.      REVEREND PHILLIP EDELEN, B. 1598 in Pinner, Middlesex, England--D. 3/22/1656/57 in Denborn(Buckingham), England.
He  was a Pastor or Minister of the Gospel. He held three "Degrees" from Emmanuel University, Caimbridge (England). He was one time Rector of St. John Zachery, Aldergate Ward, London (At one time the Puritans sacked, looted, and burned his Church). A memorial to Rev. Philip Edelen is on the south wall of St. Mary's Church, Denham, Bucks, where he is buried and where he took refuge when the raiding Puritans sacked his church of St. John Zachery and the Rectory in retaliation for his loyalty to the Crown and Established Church. Here is what his memorial says:
"Here lyeth Philippe Edelen, a man of rare endowments, singular integrity, holy Conversation and a most prudent solide and constant preacher of Truth in the most difficult times wherein he lived, continuing unmoved in the principles he had first layd and dying a true sonne of the Church of England, March 22nd, 1656 and of his age 58."
                         -M-
            CATHERINE OFFLEY. Daughter of Thomas and Anne (Clitheroe) Offley. Thomas was son of Hugh and Anne (Harding) Offley. Anne Clitheroe was daughter of Henry and Bridgett (Hewett) Clitheroe. Thomas was Alderman of London. See some of Offley and Clitherowe liniage above.
ISSUE:
1. Christopher Edelen, b. abt. 2/24/1630/31-m-Anne Broderich.
2. Anne Edelen, b. abt. 9/28/1633-m-James Hill on 6/6/1664 in London.
3. *Richard Edelen, b. 1635--d. 1694-m-Eliz. Banton, b. abt. 1639. Immigrated to America (See below).
-------------------------------------------

I descend from Christopher Edelen, youngest son of Richard and Eliz. Banton Edelen, the immigrants to Maryland. But yes I always heard and read that it was Richard Edlyn's wife Margaret ?? who, from Prussia, wanted her children's names to look and sound more Germanic so changed their names from Edlyn to Edelen. So Rev. Phillip Edelen and his siblings were the first ones to go by that spelling and his son Richard was the immigrant. I suppose the descendants of Phillip's three siblings are stillo going by Edelen. I read somewhere that during the War of 1812 during some negotiations aboard a ship there was a Lt Edelen on the American ship.  The Englishman told him that there was a Lt Edelen aboard his ship too, with an uncanny resemblance between them. But the American Edelen did nto want to meet him, still angry about the British burning Washington DC and rampaging over much of his home state of Maryland. LOL!  All this is so fascinating is it not?

By the way, that coat of arms with the plain white or silver shield with the single big anchor cross on it came with a book my dad sent off for pertaining to our coat of arms. The book said that was the oldest known one for Edelen and it could be found in something called Ziebmacher's Waffenbuch. I suspect now that book and outfit my dad ordered from was just the type that threw something to gether to sell to gullible people. Have you ever heard of that Ziebmacher's Waffenbuch? Never know.

What sort of fella was Croiland? I would love to have met him. I have read some of his research, etc. He must have been an extraordinary and interesting man.
David Middleton Edelen II
Alabama, USA

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 23 March 17 13:03 GMT (UK) »
I never actually met Crolian and at the time I corresponded with him he was very elderly and not very open to debate about the family.  He did however transcribe many pages of his notes which formed a useful basis for my knowledge of the family.

Refering to your reply.  I have a further child for Philip's father Richard.

William, Tallow Chandler12 (possibly master) the youngest son of Richard lived at Pinner Place and died 2 May 1627 (or 1668?). His son William lived in Pinner Place until he died in 1692. In 1708 when Martha Richmond was executrix and residual legatee of his will which left lands in Harrow there was still an outstanding decree in Chancery in consideration of £2028.5s owed to creditors .  Martha, one of two daughters of William the younger, the widow of a London apothecary named Richard Richmond, inherited Marlepits from her father and also purchased the adjoining Waxwell Farm9 and also Marlepit Wood which was later known as Batemanís Wood after it passed to her daughter Lucy who married a Bateman.   In 1681 William made a marriage settlement on Martha and Richard Richmond of Campions Farm with 22 Acres in Green Street and a 3 acre meadow called Stranges or Little Stranges all in the parish of Ridge. A tablet in Pinner Church shows that she died on 14th December 1725 age 66 and is buried in the Aubrey Vault along with her daughter Elizabeth Aubrey who died two years earlier15.  Williamís other daughter Hannah married John Kirton.3 Mar 1685/6.

It is interesting that many of the family members can be confirmed by the various properties that they owned and were passed on in their wills.  In this particular case the ownership of Marlpits can be tracnd through many generations.
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 23 March 17 15:57 GMT (UK) »
My info goes back to Roger Edlyn born abt 1500. I wish there was some proof and info going further back. I have read that the Edlyn/Edelens were of Celtic stock, and another source said we were of Norman stock. I just wish I knew.

Another question is Eliz Banton's father who has been referred to as Lord Pannewell. Some have said he did not exist, or possibly a nick name. Well, he did exist because for the next two or three generations after Richard and Eliz Edelen came to American there were people named after him, with Pannewell as a first name or a middle name. So I also wonder who he was.
Dave

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 25 March 17 17:26 GMT (UK) »
I have no knowledge at all about the Banton ancestors.  I have a number of Roger Edlyns but none who I can safely link into any of the families.  Does yours have a link?
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Hey Behindthefrogs, my coat of arms there
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 26 March 17 21:24 BST (UK) »
Here is an excerpt from my file. I forgot where I even got this info:

I.     ROGER EDLYN, B. ABT. 1500, in "Hatchend" (near Middlesex, England)
                      -M-
                    (?) (?)
ISSUE:
1. *Richard Edlyn, b. abt. 1530 in Pinner Marsh, Middlesex, England (See below).


II.     RICHARD EDLYN, SR. B. ABT. 1530 in Pinner Marsh, Middlesex, England.
                       -M-
        JOANE OR JANE REDDING, B. , daughter of Thomas Redding, who was son of Richard Redding.
ISSUE:
1. *Richard Edlyn, b. abt. 1565 in Pinner Marsh("Harrow-on-the-Hill"), Middlesex, England--d. bef. 8/27/1616(See
below).
2. Henry Edlyn, died 1617.
3. Morgan Edlyn.
4. William Edlyn.
5. Edward Edlyn.
6. Roger Edlyn-m-Audrey Greenhill on 12/4/1594 in Pinner.
7. Agnes Edlyn.
8. Mary Edlyn.


III.    RICHARD EDLYN, Jr. B. 1565 in Pinner Marsh (Harrow-on-the-Hill), Middlesex, England--D. bef. 8/27/1616 in Buckingham, England. Note: "Harrow-on-the-Hill" was a small village with a 200' hill on which stands an ancient church where there once stood an ancient heathen temple. Also in Harrow is Harrow School, an old influential school. Winston Churchhill went to school there. Pinner is likewise a nearby village. They are all now part of Middlesex and it is all a part of greater London.
                      -M-
         MARGARET (?)
ISSUE: (NOTE: The reason for the change in spelling of the last name is, from what I have read, that Margaret was from Prussia and wanted her children to have a more German sounding or looking name so changed it from Edlyn to Edelen).
1. *Phillip Edelen, b. 1598 in Pinner--d. 3/22/1656/57 in Denborn(Buckingham), England. Became a Pastor or Minister of the "Established Church"-m-Catherine Offley (See below).
2. Richard Edelen, died 1699.
3. Alice Edelen.
4. Joane ("Hannah") Edelen, died 1643-m-Richard Nicholas.


IV.      REVEREND PHILLIP EDELEN, B. 1598 in Pinner, Middlesex, England--D. 3/22/1656/57 in Denborn(Buckingham), England.
He  was a Pastor or Minister of the Gospel. He held three "Degrees" from Emmanuel University, Caimbridge (England). He was one time Rector of St. John Zachery, Aldergate Ward, London (At one time the Puritans sacked, looted, and burned his Church). A memorial to Rev. Philip Edelen is on the south wall of St. Mary's Church, Denham, Bucks, where he is buried and where he took refuge when the raiding Puritans sacked his church of St. John Zachery and the Rectory in retaliation for his loyalty to the Crown and Established Church. Here is what his memorial says:
"Here lyeth Philippe Edelen, a man of rare endowments, singular integrity, holy Conversation and a most prudent solide and constant preacher of Truth in the most difficult times wherein he lived, continuing unmoved in the principles he had first layd and dying a true sonne of the Church of England, March 22nd, 1656 and of his age 58."
                         -M-
            CATHERINE OFFLEY. Daughter of Thomas and Anne (Clitheroe) Offley. Thomas was son of Hugh and Anne (Harding) Offley. Anne Clitheroe was daughter of Henry and Bridgett (Hewett) Clitheroe. Thomas was Alderman of London. See some of Offley and Clitherowe liniage above.
ISSUE:
1. Christopher Edelen, b. abt. 2/24/1630/31-m-Anne Broderich.
2. Anne Edelen, b. abt. 9/28/1633-m-James Hill on 6/6/1664 in London.
3. *Richard Edelen, b. 1635--d. 1694-m-Eliz. Banton, b. abt. 1639. Immigrated to America (See below).


V.       RICHARD EDELEN, GENT., B. 1635 in Middlesex, England--Migrated to Maryland, USA in 1664 and D. 1694 in Maryland, U.S.A..
                         -M-(married 10/29/1663 in London, England)
           ELIZEBETH BANTON, B. ABT. 1639 in England--D. in St. Mary's Co., Md..