Author Topic: Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW  (Read 4765 times)

Offline Carole in Dallas

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Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW
« on: Monday 25 October 10 06:05 BST (UK) »
First all...thanks so MUCH for helping me.  IT is truly appreciated!!

Martha Withey (1809 to 1888...I think...)  married Charles Barrow (1811 to 1868 I believe)  I would like to verify these dates as well as Martha's parents.  Charles Barrow's parents led back to the Magistrate of Wedmore. I think her mother may have been Elizabeth Bullock but I have no idea of any lineage or history of that line of Martha's.  Was Charles a wine merchant...think I might have found something in the London Gazette that indicated he was. 

Thanks again for all of your help.  I am in Dallas and have been trying to research my English lines.  My grandfather's mother, Elizabeth Barrow Wylde Haring died soon after he was born due to complications of the delivery.  She was born in England and her parents were Elizabeth Barrow and Henry Ernest Wylde who moved to Rockland County New York in 1867.  Elizabeth's brother, Charles Barrow, joined her in NY after his wife died....I surmise this to be true because a US census said he was a widow.  Charles Barrow and his Sister Elizabeth Barrow Wylde were buried next to each other in Germonds Cemetery in New City, Rockland County, New York, USA.  I feel such an affinity to my history in England.
Wylde, Barrow, Andrews, Tracy, Tracey, Cocks, Dowdeswell, Roland, Steyner, Fewtrell, Gambuti, Nurmi, Haring, Requa, Blauvelt, Smith, Shirley, Kemp, Withey, Requa, Snider, Blauvelt, Sherwood, Yeury, Blaunch, Bell, Graham, Smith, Riker, Everetts, Bogaert, Everts, Evertse, Glaes, Laurens, Boogaertman, Cozyns

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline AMBLY

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Re: Martha Withey and Charles Barrow
« Reply #1 on: Monday 25 October 10 07:12 BST (UK) »
Hi

Elizabeth BARROW (who was to marry Henry Ernest WYLDE) - she was the daughter Charles BARROW Snr and Martha?

To avoid going over what you may already have - do you already have English Census records, in which:
1851 (Walton Surrey)  & 1861 (Freyning, Essex) Charles BARROW Snr is aWine Merchant
1871 & 1881  Martha is a widow of Colveston Crescent, Hackney, London.

MARTHA - Probate
29 Mar 1888 - The Will & codicil  of Martha BARROW, widow, formerly of Colveston Crescent, Dalston, Middlesex but lately of 64 Petherton Rd, Highbury New Park, Middlesex.
She died 24 Feb 1888 at 64 Petherton Road.
Her Will was proved in the Principal Registry London by her daughter, and sole Executrix, Frances Susan BARROW, spinster, of 64 Petherton Road.
Her Personal Estate was 76GBP.

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

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Offline Carole in Dallas

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Re: Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 03:29 BST (UK) »
I would love that information...how can I get a copy of those census records....but more important...how can I get a record of who Martha Withey's parents were? 

YOU are so kind KIND kind to help me.   Thanks all the way from the big state of Texas!!!
Wylde, Barrow, Andrews, Tracy, Tracey, Cocks, Dowdeswell, Roland, Steyner, Fewtrell, Gambuti, Nurmi, Haring, Requa, Blauvelt, Smith, Shirley, Kemp, Withey, Requa, Snider, Blauvelt, Sherwood, Yeury, Blaunch, Bell, Graham, Smith, Riker, Everetts, Bogaert, Everts, Evertse, Glaes, Laurens, Boogaertman, Cozyns

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Carole in Dallas

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Re: Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 03:35 BST (UK) »
PS....I do have the ship records of Henry Ernest Wylde and his wife Elizabeth Wylde coming to the US in 1867 with the children including my grandfather's mother. 

I am still looking for the census record that shows that Elizabeth Barrow and Charles Barrow were children of Charles and Martha Barrow....on one census Charles Jr is shown living with his grandparents at the Manor in Wedmore with his grandfather, John Barrow the Magistrate....but the date of his age is incorrect.  I was hoping to find the 1841 census showing elizabeth barrow....did find the 1841 census showing Charles with his grandparents...though his age is not correct....but would love to find where elizabeth barrow b 1836 was....her parents were charles and martha barrow.

DEEPEST appreciation is being sent your way.
Wylde, Barrow, Andrews, Tracy, Tracey, Cocks, Dowdeswell, Roland, Steyner, Fewtrell, Gambuti, Nurmi, Haring, Requa, Blauvelt, Smith, Shirley, Kemp, Withey, Requa, Snider, Blauvelt, Sherwood, Yeury, Blaunch, Bell, Graham, Smith, Riker, Everetts, Bogaert, Everts, Evertse, Glaes, Laurens, Boogaertman, Cozyns

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 04:00 BST (UK) »
Hi  ;D

In order to try determine who Martha was, need to first gather the information on her from known records.

1851: Bridge Street - Walton on Thames, Surrey
HO107 /  Piece: 1593 /  Folio: 43 / Page: 18
Head: Charles BARROW 39, Wine Merchant 52 Cole-----le, b Wendon, Somerset *
Wife: Martha BARROW 42, b Bath Somerset
Son: Charles BARROW 17, Clerk & Oil Merchant, b Wedmore, Somerset
Dau: Elizabeth BARROW 15?, unm, b Upper Clapton, Middlesex **
Dau: Charlotte Maria BARROW 7?, b Upper Clapton, Middlesex **
Dau: Ann BARROW 6?, b Upper Clapton, Middlesex **
Dau: Grace BARROW 3, b Wokingham, Berks(hire)
-----: Rebecca CARR 15, unm, House Servant, b Woodbury?, Berks(hire)

* Place of birth possibly meant to be Wembdon. His occupation appears to give what I think is an address of his Wine Merchant-ry - but there is a splodge through the word and can't make all of it out.
** The enumerator has made checking marks through the ages. Pretty certain Elizabeth is 15 and Charlotte is 7. Not very sure if Ann is 6 - but it has to be a single digit age between 4 and 8!!
However, 2 of their other children age 13 and 9 are at a school in Dorset in 1851 - so presume Elizabeth is over 13 & no longer at school, while Charlotte and Ann are under 9 and not yet shipped off to be 'finished'.


Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 04:15 BST (UK) »
The two daughters in school 1851:

1851: West Borough - Village of Wimborne, Parish of Wimborne Minster, Dorset
HO107 /  Piece: 1854 /  Folio: 488 /  Page: 73
Head: Sophia CLARKE 39, widow, Ladies School Mistress, b Manchester, Lancashire
and two of her young ladies, listed consecutively:
Pupil: Frances BARROW 13, 9, Scholar, b Clapton, Middlesex
Pupil: Fredericia BARROW 9, Scholar, b Clapton, Middlesex

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 04:39 BST (UK) »
http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Hackney/index.html
Upper Clapton is one of the hamlets in Hackney, Middlesex

Messy writing - but this is them in 1841:
1841:  Clapton Place - St John Hackney, Middlesex
HO107 /  Piece 700 /  Book: 11 /  Folio: 15 /  Page: 25
Charles BARROW 25, Wine Merchant - No
Martha BARROW 30 - No
Thomas BARROW 25, Ind(ependant) - No
Eliz BARROW 5 - Yes
Susan BARROW 3 - Yes
H? RICKARD?  20 (female), F.S. - No

(Susan - is Frances as per 1851; Susan was her middle name)

In the 1841 Census, ages for persons aged 15 years and over was supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years (so someone age 29 for eg, should be rounded down to 25). Not all enumerators/understood followed this rule - which led for eg. to rounding by incorrect number of years or no rounding at all. In this family - it looks to me as if rounding has been correctly applied. (Children under 15 years, were supposed to have their exact age stated)

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 07:28 BST (UK) »
I think Martha's mother was Betty (Elizabeth) Phillips nee PICKWICK, daughter of Moses PICKWICK & Sarah SMITH:
married 1) George WITHEY 1792
married 2) Thomas BULLOCK 1814

As outlined here:
http://pickwickfamily.org/p6.htm#i168

How this 'think' is arrived at:
Snippets from  a google book
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0a6n/
(I don't think the link will bring up the exact reference I found - but it is on page 222. Try googling in Google Books for "Martha Withey" or a combo of key words.....)

"...he died at Beckington on Dec 12th, 1834, see Gentlemans Magazine 1835, i 228, where he is styled 'nephew to E Pickwick, Esq, of Queens Square Bath',  who was the above mentioned Eleazer. Eleazer and Aaron were therefore brothers....."
The 'he' who died 1834 appears to refer to Charles PICKWICK 1803-1834, (son of Aaron PICKWICK and Sarah), who married Harriet Sarah SAINSBURY. Aaron was the son of Moses PICKWICK & Sarah SMITH.

"...The Testator resided at 10 Queens Square, Bath. He mentions besides his two nephews,  his wife Susannah, his sister Elizabeth BULLOCK, and her daughter Martha Withey (who, in the interval between the will and the codicil, became wife to Charles Barrow of Bath), his cousin Moses ...."
This appears to refer to Eleazor PICKWICK 1748-1837 (son of  Moses PICKWICK & Sarah SMITH) whose wife was a Susannah COOMBS.
Martha appears to have married Charles around 1834-1835 going by the baptisms of their children and census records, so the interval mentioned must be around that time?

"......I noticed nothing in the will or the codicil, when I read them at Somerset House, to connect either the testator or his cousin Moses with the business of a coach proprietor. They are the prolix documents of a man bent on tying up his properties unto the third of fourth generation, but do not disclose the...."

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Martha WITHEY and Charles BARROW
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 26 October 10 07:56 BST (UK) »
Reading between the lines of the snippets, it seemed to allude to a bit of 'goings on' over wills or estates sometime after the fact (of death)....

And:
Probate - Eleazer PICKWICK, died 8 Dec 1837
Effects under 1000 GBP
Probate at Principal Registry  - Letters of Administration 31 Oct 1868

Doesn't mention Martha WITHEY/BARROW (who would be his neice) in this Probate Index entry , but his original will should do (if the above trail is correctly leadng to him)

If this is the correct family of your Martha, she had a sister named Betty, bap 1792
http://pickwickfamily.org/p6.htm#i172

And any jokes about "Pickwick Papers"/Charles Dickens.........no joke!  There are many googled up references regarding Dickens having known this family and 'appropriated' their  name and a partial 'occupation'  for his famous work. The Pickwick family, according to Elezer's entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, changed the name to Salisbury around 1872 (one of the names married into their family) due to having obtained a grant of Arms, but maybe also to distance themselves from Dickens' Pickwick.

Elezer was the proprietor of the White Hart Inn in Bath.  Jane Austen also stayed at this inn - and found it much to her liking....

http://austenonly.com/2010/02/15/
http://members.shaw.ca/panthers10/BathHistoryNames1791.html

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)