18 children by the same woman?!

[littleem1906]

I have in my family tree GEORGE SMITH (1851-?) born in Leominster, Hereford. I know that he married CLARA MILLER (1851-?) born in Birmingham. (Miller is a guess for a surname, as I found a marriage on IGI for a George Smith marrying a Clara in Birmingham around the year their first child was born). They married on 11 Aug 1872.

I have George and Clara in the 1881 and 1891 census records and have . It seems they had the following children (there could be more who were born/died between census')
- FRED SMITH (1871-?)
- GEORGE SMITH (1872-?)
- POLLY SMITH (1873-?)
- LEAH SMITH (1877-?)
- GERTIE SMITH (1979-?)
- CLAUD SMITH (1880-?)
- ALONZO SMITH (1881-?) married Florence Susannah Platford and had 2 daughters in the 1911 census FLORENCE L SMITH (1903-?) and ELSIE V SMITH (1908-?) and a son after the 1911 census, JOHN ALFRED SMITH (1915-1986). There could be more children that I haven't found.
- BEATRICE SMITH (1884-?)
- WILFRED SMITH (1885-?)
- WILLIAM SMITH (1886-?)
- ELVIE (1888-?)
- OLIVE SMITH (1889-?)
- NELLIE SMITH (1890-?)

Then in 1901 George appears with a wife called LEAH (1852-?) born in Birmingham with these extra children.
- MONA SMITH (1891-?)
- ETHEL SMITH (1892-?)
- WINNIE SMITH (1893-?)
- LEONARD SMITH (1895-?)
- BERTIE SMITH (1900-?)

This is what I would like to know:
1) When was George Smith born and who are his parents? I have been unable to find a birth for George Smith as in 1881 census he claims to be born in Birmingham, then in 1891 born in Leominster Herefordshire, then in 1901 born in Bedfordshire!! It is definately the same family in each census as the children and ages match.
2) When did George and Clara die?
3) Do I have the correct marriage for George and Clara - is there another Clara it could be?
4) Who is George's second wife Leah? Could this still be Clara? If so the poor woman had at least 18 children!!!
5) What became of their children - marriages, children, deaths etc?

Can anyone help?

[majm]

Hi there,

Its not impossible to have 18 children by the same wife ... several of my 19thC family managed 19 and 20, with a couple of multiple births.  But of course with that very popular surname of SMITH ... well I would not just rely on the census records or even on the IGI extracted ... I'd be wanting to obtain actual certificates which should show lots more information about the family ... for example marriage should have the names of the groom and bride's parents, occupations, addresses, ages etc ... You have Clara Miller marrying a George Smith at All Saints, Birmingham, Warwick on 11 August 1872 ... but how do you know that it was 'YOUR' George Smith ...  ... Clara Miller may have been an aged widow that Geo married for her money and no children were born to them .. or she may have been say 16 and therefore had 18 children over the course of the next thirty years or so...  That extracted IGI record doesn't give the ages of the couple.  Sorry, but in my humble opinion the surname of SMITH definitely means you will need to dig deeper and spend some pennies on certificates rather than relying on several census records before even considering Clara Miller was your Geo's wife...

Some positive thoughts :
Have you checked out the pilot site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start and also these births and the marriage would have been registered so have you checked this link http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ ...  (you can get the GRO references on that link)

Have you any of the birth certificates for the children .. perhaps say Alonzo ... hopefully as this is not a popular name he may be easier to trace.

Have you looked for Medal Cards for the sons ... tespecially the younger ones .. they were the right age to have served in WW1 ...

Have you asked for a Scavengr Hunt here at RChat? Here's the link for that http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,358572.0.html  May I suggest you send a PM to have your hunt reserved for you, there's some very experienced RChatters who regularly help other RChatters to break some brickwalls...   

Others may have more ideas, I'm NSW Australia based, so my understanding of UK records is not as reliable as the UK Rchatters..

Good Luck, I've a couple of SMITHS in my tree 

Cheers,  JM

[sillgen]

Very sensible advice from majm.  If you look on www.freebmd.org.uk for marriages of a George Smith to a Clara there are several across the right time frame and in the right area.  You cannot be sure about her surname until you have a child's birth certificate.   It will cost a bit but going off on the wrong line will cost much more in the long run.  There are several Alonzo Smiths too so it might be worth contacting the local register office to check which one has a father named George with the right occupation.
Andrea

[toni*]

i was going to advise to get the birth certificate of a child to confirm mmn. but it seems other people have already beaten me to it!

if you can find George on the 1911 census this will tell you how many children he has altogether and how many are surviving and who he was married to (i.e. his wifes name)  and for how long

but i am not sure if he was married for a second time or more if the census says how many children from this union or in total or if it will say how many children the wife has as opposed to George himself 

[Jeuel]

In my and my husband's trees no woman has given birth after the age of 43, so the number of children they have is dependent on how young/old they are when they marry.

[carol8353]

if you can find George on the 1911 census this will tell you how many children he has altogether and how many are surviving and who he was married to (i.e. his wifes name)  and for how long

That's a great idea Toni 

Although it'll only tell you how many children born to the current marriage -it will help enormously 

Sorry we can't do look ups of the 1911 though.

Carol

[jim1]

1 possible marriage:
George Smith = Clara Witton/23/10/1870/St.Peter's & St.Paul's Aston
GRO ref:Dec.1870/Aston/6D/402
1 Claud Smith birth:
GRO ref:March 1880/Aston/6D/432
His middle name is given as Dalman which may be significant.
1871 cen.RG10/3157/43/33/Aston Manor.
151 Park Lane
George Smith/19/jeweller's assistant
Clara Smith/18/cartridge cutter
both born B'ham

jim

[carol8353]

Hmm possible ,but after looking at the latest census I think you need to be looking a few years later than that 

Carol

[jim1]

Just added the 1871 census.If Frederick was born 1871 why later?
jim