Author Topic: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?  (Read 16355 times)

Offline Eleesavet

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 18 January 18 20:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Peter,

Welcome to RootsChat.

Interesting to read that you are descended from Dr Marshall's sister Ann and her husband.  I too am descended from Ann and her husband through their first child, John.  I hope you don't mind me asking from which of their children you descend. 

My family tree is on the ancestry.com site.  I can send you the reference to access my tree by private message to RootsChat but, before you can receive a private message, you must first as a new member make 3 postings on RootsChat.  If you are not a member of ancestry, I will try my best to pass on information which I think may be of interest to you by private message or email, whichever you prefer.  Only send your email address by private message should you choose.

Dr Marshall's connection to Queen Victoria has generated a lot of interest and brought together a few researchers.  I trust he will further your research.

Regards.

Liz

Perthshire: MacArthur, Whittet, Mill (Milne), Alexander, Shaw, Pearson, Henderson, Rennie, Comrie, Braid, Ritchie, Roy, MacKillop, Keill, Cumming, Taylor, Marshall, Young, Miller, MacVicar, Murray, Cameron, Croll, Christie, Gloag, Gorrie, Stobbie, Lunnan, Thomson, Crerar, Hepburn.
Dundee: Mill (Milne).
Aberdeen: Mill (Milne).
Skye: MacIntosh, Stewart, MacQueen, Matheson, Morrison, Nicholson, MacLeod, Finlayson.
Peebles: Dickson, Sandilands, Rule, Johnstone.
Edinburgh: Thomson, Sandilands.

Offline Perthshireman

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 18 January 18 22:36 GMT (UK) »
Hello Liz,

I wasn't expecting such a quick response to my posting but obviously very pleased to have made contact with someone with whom I have a direct lineage. I confess that I have had a few years off from my research but retirement and cold,dark English evenings have drawn me back.

I am a descendant of James Roy(1866-1944) son of John Roy and Ann Marshall. As you may know, John Roy re-married Elizabeth McGlashan (his first cousin) in 1875 after the early death of Ann in 1874.

James Roy married MaryAnn McNeil in 1890 in Dundee, producing 4 children (Betsy, Maggie, James and William). However, prior to the marriage, in 1887, MaryAnn had delivered an illegitimate son who was registered as John Roy McNeil. This was my grandfather. On the marriage of James and MaryAnn, the birth of my grandfather was legitimised and his name changed to John McNeil Roy. I have confirmation that my grandfather is truly the son of James and the family resemblance of father and son and with his brother William is very noticeable.

John McNeil Roy married Catherine Ann Mowat in 1916 and had my father James Roy and his sister Isobella Mackay Roy. James married Jessie Ann Garvie Clow in 1948 and I was born in 1951, an only child.

My Roy lineage gets a bit complicated, there are so many James and Johns. In fact, during my father's generation, there were no fewer than 5 James Roy in existence at the same time, and all were railwaymen. It was fun during family occasions working out who was who and what their relationships were. Sadly all these have now passed on, although there are progeny out there somewhere.

Thank you for your offer of further information. I'm sure that I would enjoy furthering my family tree and offer any information you may find useful in your own research. I'm not currently a subscriber to Ancestry as I have always found Scotland's People a satisfactory source. However, I'll investigate this possibility. In the meantime I'll try to get to grips with this forum.

Once again it's been a pleasure making contact and I look forward to speaking again

Peter

Offline Eleesavet

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #29 on: Friday 19 January 18 06:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Peter,

You are the first person I have met who is descended from John Roy and Ann Marshall.   Yes I know that John re-married his first cousin.  Their son John (my great grandfather) married Jessie McKillip (or Janet Cumming Keil) and their daughter Christina married my grandfather Alexander Sandilands Rennie.  Janet Cumming Keil was illegitimate and later took the name of her father, McKillip.  Below is a timeline of events and descendants of John and Janet.

Marriage
John Roy married Janet Cumming Keil on June 30, 1882, when he was 19 years old and Janet Cumming Keil (1861–1936) age 22, at the District of St Mary, Burgh of Dundee.

ABT 1882
* Birth of Son
His son John was born in 1882 in St Martins, Perthshire.

10 AUG 1884
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Christina was born on August 10, 1884, in St Martins, Perthshire.

ABT 1888
Birth of Son
His son James was born in 1888 in Cargill, Perthshire.

ABT 1889
** Birth of Son
His son Frank Buttar was born in 1889 in Kilspindie, Perthshire.

ABT 1892
Birth of Son
His son Charles was born in 1892 in Kinnoull, Perthshire.

ABT 1893
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Jessie Ann was born in 1893 in Kinnaird, Perthshire.

ABT 1897
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Isabella was born in 1897 in Cargill, Perthshire.

ABT 1899
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Betsy was born in 1899 in Cargill, Perthshire.

ABT 1901
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Fanny Brown was born in 1901 in Cargill, Perthshire.

29 OCT 1936
Death of Wife
His wife Janet Cumming passed away on October 29, 1936, at the age of 75, Ruthven Avenue, Perth.  They had been married 54 years.

* Birth certificate shows he was born illegitimate to John Roy and Jessie McKillop.

** Birth certificate shows he was born illegitimate to John Roy and Margaret Emslie m.s. Buttar (widow).  Frank is with the family of John Roy and Jessie McKillop on the 1891 and the 1901 census and recorded as son.  Frank's death certificate confirms his birth parents as shown on the birth certificate.  I found the death certificate, 1938, of a Margaret Drummond m.s. Buttar, widow of (1) John Emslie and (2) George Drummond. From the index of marriages on ScotlandsPeople, Margaret and George married in 1897.

Apart from my direct line from daughter Christina, I have no information on her siblings' descendants. The furthest back I have gone on the direct line of our Roy ancestry is to a John Roy and his wife Janet Christie; their son Duncan (1785-1871) and his wife Betty Watson.  Possibly you know that already.  I sometimes wonder if our Roy family is connected to the celebrated Rob Roy McGregor, any thoughts?

If you want details of John Roy and Ann Marshall's other children, I can pass on to you.

You will find Dr Marshall's will on the Scotland's People site and that of his brother, John, who died at the age of 43 in Brazil.

I am no longer a member of ancestry.com and only ever had a free trial subscription but luckily I can still access to view and update my tree. 

I find that I only now open my ancestry when someone is asking for information re my ancestors.  So new inquiries are always welcome lest I forget my past.

Anway happy hunting.

Liz

ps I was brought up in Perth and never knew anything about nor was interested in these ancestors at the time. 


Perthshire: MacArthur, Whittet, Mill (Milne), Alexander, Shaw, Pearson, Henderson, Rennie, Comrie, Braid, Ritchie, Roy, MacKillop, Keill, Cumming, Taylor, Marshall, Young, Miller, MacVicar, Murray, Cameron, Croll, Christie, Gloag, Gorrie, Stobbie, Lunnan, Thomson, Crerar, Hepburn.
Dundee: Mill (Milne).
Aberdeen: Mill (Milne).
Skye: MacIntosh, Stewart, MacQueen, Matheson, Morrison, Nicholson, MacLeod, Finlayson.
Peebles: Dickson, Sandilands, Rule, Johnstone.
Edinburgh: Thomson, Sandilands.

Offline SurfinNan

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #30 on: Friday 19 January 18 07:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi Peter

I have read with interest the recent posts. I have been researching Dr Marshall's life for a couple of years now and am just about to complete my little biography of him. I am a descendant if his sister Betsy Marshall who married William Rose and in 1864 they emigrated to Australia. Their eldest Daughter Nicholas returned to Scotland at 18 to help nurse her Uncle. She married William Stothard
and remained in Scotland.

I also am a descendant of both wives of James Young through both my Great grandparents - John Young and Euphemia Rose who married in Western Australia in 1896.

I can send you what I have gleaned from various sources. Always looking for that personal story to add which makes a person more real. Actually I have been stalling on finishing my story only because I will be sad to see an end to my endeavours.

Evelyn Mitchell



Offline Eleesavet

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #31 on: Friday 19 January 18 10:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Peter and Hello Evelyn,

It's good to hear from you again, Evelyn.  I look forward to reading your finished work on Dr Marshall.  I can understand you feeling sad too when it is complete.

Peter, thanks to you, I am now paying more attention to my Roy ancestry and have been surfing the net for clues.  I found the following with reference to a Roy/McGregor connection onhttp://www.douglasofmonzieandfowliswester.com/page/10-glenalmond_in_the_45.  Apologies if you already know:

"The Roys and the McGregors?

The surname Roy comes from Lanarkshire originally so it is a little strange to find so many nestled in Perthshire, but it can also refer to a person's hair colour, a corruption of ruadh (red).

Everyone has heard of Rob Roy McGregor, the famous 18th century Scotsman (portrayed well by Liam Neeson in a 1990s film). Was Roy a surname for him? Apparently not- his mother's maiden name was Campbell and he took that name when he needed to.

The McGregor clan heartland was Balquhidder, further west in Perthshire. They, famously, had their surname banned in the early 1600s by James VI and were forced to take other names. According to the Clan Gregor Society www.clangregor.com  new surnames were allocated to them. There are 4 lists of names. Roy is on a list of documented aliases used by McGregors. Interestingly, Douglas is on the list of other clan names known to have been used by the McGregors. My thanks to webmaster Nancy Johnson for drawing my attention to this.

So- it is possible that the Roy family (and all the descendants of the Charles Douglas born in 1700 come from them) who married Douglases in the early 1700s were originally McGregors. It is even possible that those first Douglases we find were themselves originally McGregors, I suppose!"

Will leave you to digest.

Liz
Perthshire: MacArthur, Whittet, Mill (Milne), Alexander, Shaw, Pearson, Henderson, Rennie, Comrie, Braid, Ritchie, Roy, MacKillop, Keill, Cumming, Taylor, Marshall, Young, Miller, MacVicar, Murray, Cameron, Croll, Christie, Gloag, Gorrie, Stobbie, Lunnan, Thomson, Crerar, Hepburn.
Dundee: Mill (Milne).
Aberdeen: Mill (Milne).
Skye: MacIntosh, Stewart, MacQueen, Matheson, Morrison, Nicholson, MacLeod, Finlayson.
Peebles: Dickson, Sandilands, Rule, Johnstone.
Edinburgh: Thomson, Sandilands.

Offline Perthshireman

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #32 on: Friday 19 January 18 13:27 GMT (UK) »
Hello Liz and Evelyn,

Thanks for the replies with the lineage information. It will take a little time to digest and process all of this info. The Marshalls seem to have been an adventurous lot, royal physician, emigrating to Australia, ending up in Brazil etc. Poor old Ann was recorded as a domestic servant on her marriage certificate. I shall have to look more closely at this family as they sound interesting.

1n 1999, I received a letter from a man in Doncaster whose mother was a ROY. He had traced his lineage back to James ROY possibly born in July 1767 in Crieff who married Elspeth PHILLIP. Their son James ROY, a mason, was born possibly in August 1797 in Forteviot. He married Mary SCOTT.

This James ROY had a natural son (ie illegitimate), James ROY, a farm labourer of Methven, born about 1834 to a Jane PROUDFOOT, of Methven.  (Aargh, you see what I meant by all these James Roys!!)

One very interesting fact that derived from this letter was that he had a pedigree for the ROYs of Crieff, going back to John ROY, born 1675 in Crieff. He had received this pedigree from a man in Australia whose relative had researched the ROY family of Crieff. This relative was the then (1991) Bishop of Melbourne, who was at one time an Anglican clergyman who had unlimited access to the church records of Crieff.

From these records, the researcher found that the ROYs of Crieff (and almost certainly the ROYs of Methven) were descendants of a family of Flemish weavers brought to Strathearn (ie the area around Crieff and Methven) by the Earl of Perth sometime between 1611 and 1662. Several of these migrants changed their names to ROY because they came from the town of Roeulx, SW of Brussels. The earliest entries for the name ROY spelt it ROEY. (If the family reporting births, deaths and marriages were illiterate, the church official would enter the name as he heard it so Roeulx could sound the same as ROEY or ROY)

This gentleman could not link my specific ROYs into this pedigree but was very confident that my research in the future would establish the link as he was sure that the ROYs of Methven and the ROYs of Crieff are inter-related

So, Liz and Evelyn, it is possible that we are actually Belgian. I don't know about you but I feel a bit miffed about that. The romanticism of being related to Rob Roy has dissipated. I was always of the opinion that the Roy on Rob Roy was from the Gaelic word "red haired" and more likely. A further suggestion, although a bit tenuous, was that the name ROY was derived from the name FITZROI (illegitimate children of the King of France or members of the King's court) as a result of dalliances by Scotswomen whilst in exile from the home country. I think I would prefer that to the notion of being Belgian. I will keep my options open about the McGregor link though.

As usual, these correspondences usually throw up more questions than answers but that is the challenge of the hobby. It has no end. Thanks again for the contact and I look forward to keeping in touch, either to pick brains or supply any info I may have. Cheers for now.

Peter

PS Liz. I too was born and bred in Perth (1951-1969) until I went to uni and then into HM forces. I ended up in Norfolk. I too have links with Ruthven Avenue (a rough old area in its day)



 

Offline bleckie

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #33 on: Friday 19 January 18 13:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi All
The earliest that I can find taken from the Muthill register of Episcopalian births.

NORMAND TAYLLOR lawful son to John Tayllor and Elspet Roy in Alichroy was born the 9th of Aprile and Baptised the tenth of ye sd month 1699.


Yours Aye
BruceL

Offline SurfinNan

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 20 January 18 07:23 GMT (UK) »
Peter and Liz
I know this is a little off centre, but I too was born and lived in Perth, although it is Perth, Western Australia. It was named after Perth, Scotland because James Stirling the said founder hailed from the area. I have always had a leaning towards my ancestors that came from Perth because of that.
Evelyn.

Offline Eleesavet

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Re: Can you look up Fowlis Wester MIs?
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 21 January 18 09:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi Peter,

Thank you for the information on the ROYs of Crieff and most likely Methven being descended from a family of Flemish weavers brought to Strathearn.  I found it fascinating and my romance with Rob Roy soon waned on researching Scotland and the Flemish people.

There is an excellent University of St Andrews' blog "Scotland and the Flemish People": https://flemish.wp.st-andrews.ac.uk/.  They held a conference on this subject in mid June 2016 and posted a short summary of their findings.  One of the themes discussed at the conference was DNA.  There is a blog on a DNA project to test families with possible Flemish origin and it lists the principle families involved, including ROY.  At the time of this blog, no ROYs had enlisted; perhaps you could be the first!

The town of Le Roeulx is in the French-speaking Walloonist region of Belgium.  Le Roeulx Castle is also known as the Chateau des Princes de Croy, or castle of the Princes de Croy.  I was impressed by the similarity between the names Croy and Roy.  Of course, Croy in French would sound different, or in Dutch. 

Also, to put into the mix, is the similarity between the family names ROY and ROYES.  ROYES may be French in origin; there is a town in France named Royes.  Thousands of French-speaking Huguenots came to England in the 16-17th centuries, bringing their textile industries.  You can find ROYEs on
ScotlandsPeople.

All very interesting.  We will likely find out that ROYs are a melting pot of redheaded revolutionists weaving a web of French Royal dalliances.

Thank you for your contribution. 

If I find anything of interest, I will contact you.

Liz
Perthshire: MacArthur, Whittet, Mill (Milne), Alexander, Shaw, Pearson, Henderson, Rennie, Comrie, Braid, Ritchie, Roy, MacKillop, Keill, Cumming, Taylor, Marshall, Young, Miller, MacVicar, Murray, Cameron, Croll, Christie, Gloag, Gorrie, Stobbie, Lunnan, Thomson, Crerar, Hepburn.
Dundee: Mill (Milne).
Aberdeen: Mill (Milne).
Skye: MacIntosh, Stewart, MacQueen, Matheson, Morrison, Nicholson, MacLeod, Finlayson.
Peebles: Dickson, Sandilands, Rule, Johnstone.
Edinburgh: Thomson, Sandilands.