Author Topic: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County  (Read 11293 times)

Offline jed6767

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Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« Reply #18 on: Friday 12 January 18 17:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dave-at-london

I live in Ireland and have made contact with Genieologist recently who posted above on Sadlier/Jollie links via ancestry but only just picked up on the detail of your post about Mary Sadlier and James McKay Smith.

They are my greatgrandparents as well and I have a good deal of information about their children and their descendants. But there are 2 children I know less about - William b 1868, m Ellen Paul in Bray 1892 and thereafter nothing. It's a common name and I suspect they went to the UK. The other is James b 1886 who I know went to the UK, lived in Newmarket and was involved with the horse breeding industry.

I'd love to know your connection to Mary S - mine is that Anne Alice was my grandmother, her sons were James and Frank, my Dad, who's 95 and still in good health (and pretty good memory).

I'd love to hear from you.

Offline dave-at-london

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Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« Reply #19 on: Friday 12 January 18 18:53 GMT (UK) »
James John born 1885 was my grandfather, went to UK in 1920s with his wife Edith May Taylor and three children all born in Adare Co Limerick. Elizabeth, Alan (my father) and Maurice. They lived in Newmarket and he was a horse breeding consultant. My understanding is he was persona non grata in Adare (I think because he was a land agent's employee - rent collector). William was the oldest of the family, and had a twin sister, Mary. I have a lot of information on the Smith family in Bray from data in St Paul's churchyard, so I can go back to the 1790s or so. I would very much like to know how you fit in the picture. I have very little information on the offspring of the brothers and sisters of my grandfather, other than that supplied to me by Bruce Chandler who met with me in Bray in 2015. It wasn't until after I met him I found the maiden name of Mary Sadlier. My guess is it would be a lot easier if we could communicate directly, but I'm not sure if the rules allow us to do that. I live in London, Ontario, Canada. Are you able to make a quick call to Canada 011 519 471-7219 to make more meaningful contact? Or am I violating the rules by suggesting that. I suspect we might be able to supply each other with a lot of data.

Offline dathai

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Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« Reply #20 on: Friday 12 January 18 19:11 GMT (UK) »
no 5
Eveylyn 1899 at Castle St,Bray
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02009/1772014.pdf

Eileen Violet 1904 same address
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01807/1708126.pdf

there may be others 1892 to 1898 where the maiden name is not listed,there are 83 Smith birth's in Rathdown between the above dates

Offline dave-at-london

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Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« Reply #21 on: Friday 12 January 18 19:17 GMT (UK) »
I didn't know Ellen's maiden name, which you say is Paul. I have marriage date as 1893 based on something in the 1911 census. Five children, one died very young and no name given. There was a son - another James McKay (named after his grandfather) born c1894, Mabel Ellen born c1896, Ethel c1900 and Eileen c1905. It is a mystery to me where the middle name McKay came from. I was thinking it might suggest other places to look for ancestors, but nothing in the Bray records I could find gave a hint. The original James McKay and Mary Sadlier were married in Dublin - not in Bray - and I guess he worked there for a while. The Smiths of Bray really were smiths by profession, and quite well-off judging by the property they owned. After they married he returned to the family business in Bray, where he died when my grandfather was very young. So my grandfather was a spoiled brat (I have been told) surrounded by older sisters and a mother - his only brother William having left home, probably before James John was born. Is any of this a help to you?


Offline dathai

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Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« Reply #22 on: Friday 12 January 18 19:30 GMT (UK) »
on the index Elen's name is transcribed as Pane though the marriage cert show's Paul   1892
213 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10652/5880999.pdf

possible marriage for Eileen Violet from Belton House,Bray dtr of William Smith a Farrier 1941 to a William George Thorpe
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1941/08815/5187359.pdf

Googling Belton House list's it as 2 Castle St,Bray


Offline dave-at-london

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Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« Reply #24 on: Friday 12 January 18 19:57 GMT (UK) »
These are the daughters I see for James McKay Smith and Mary Sadlier:
Mary, William's twin 1868
Elizabeth Anne 1870
Jane 1872
Rebecca Emma 1874 died 1880
Margaret 1879
Constance Eva Rebecca 1881 (sometimes referred to as Rebecca, having been born just after her elder sister's death). I have her marrying an Edward Horne, and it appears her mother lived with her in her later years.
Anne Alice born 1893, and something in my grandfather's records give a date of death as 1965, two years before his death.
 
So is Eileen Violet being suggested as William's youngest child? and is Eveylyn (spelling?) the unnamed child who died very young? My first thought was these were being suggested as siblings of James John and William, but the dates suggest I was misreading the intention.


Offline dave-at-london

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Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« Reply #25 on: Friday 12 January 18 20:02 GMT (UK) »
Bruce Chandler showed me Belton House, which I would describe as a family compound at 2 Castle Street. Yes this is the same thing. It's easy to imagine the present buildings being home to several branches of the same family. And they were all blacksmiths - farriers. In those days putting shoes on horses and making metal carts was the equivalent to being a car dealer today I suspect. Quite a lucrative living.

Offline dathai

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Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« Reply #26 on: Friday 12 January 18 20:34 GMT (UK) »
William Valentine Smith died age 6wks 1898 Pneumonia son of a Farrier informant father Wiliam Smith ,Castle St
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05822/4648662.pdf

birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02097/1799136.pdf

P S
I think Ethel and Evelyn are the same child