Sullivan, Timothy and Griffin, Bridget

[SullyQuest]

Tim and Bridget Sullivan had 8 children: James 1863, Julia 1866, John 1869, Michael 1871, Tim 1874, Mary 1876, Patrick 1880 , and Bridget 1884. All baptisms in Liss, Caherdaniel and birth records in Liss, district of Sneem, registrar’s district of Kenmare, Co. Kerry.
According to this article:
“NAMING PATTERNS common in Ireland in the  mid-1800's
If you test it against the names of your ancestors AND they followed it...the probability that the prior generation might have is enough for me to look for that first name I would expect the prior generations would have-when I have no other leads to follow.
The 1st son was usually named after the fathers father
The 1st daughter was usually named after the mothers mother
the 2nd son was usually named after the mothers father
the 2nd daughter was usually named after the fathers mother
the 3rd son was usually named after the father
the 3rd daughter was usually named after the mother
the 4th son was usually named after the fathers eldest brother
the 4th daughter was usually named after the mothers eldest sister
the 5th son was usually named after the mothers eldest brother
the 5th daughter was usually named after the fathers eldest sister.
Naturally this pattern could not be followed exactly, but most families would try and keep to it.”
 
Timothy's father would be Michael, his grandparents James and Mary Sullivan
Bridget's mother would be Bridget, her grandparents Julia and John Griffin(Griffen).
 
I have no idea how to proceed to find their parents or siblings.
I looked at churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie but I am totally confused by the plethora of names and without a mother’s name it appears hopeless.
A bit more info: I have their marriage record 1861 and all the children’s birth and baptism records and their emigration date and ship in 1884. So, my interests lie in finding parents and siblings in order to discover if there are any living descendants.
Thank you for any help you can provide.
SullyQuest

[shanew147]

The best way to try to find parents for Tim and Bridget is to check their marriage record as this often includes their father's names. I'm not seeing a Sullivan/Griffin marriage in 1861 - where did it take place ?

The naming system you described is sometimes used - but not always fully followed...


Shane

[shanew147]

I presume this is the marriage :

  Marriage of Timothy Sullivan & Bridget Griffen - 9 Feb 1861
  Parish : Caherdaniel RC

Unfortunately no father's names recorded on the marriage, and with a common Kerry surname like Sullivan it's not going to be easy to follow Timothy's line with any certainty. Griffin is not as common a surname - so might be a little easier.

On the marriage record Timothy's residence is given as Liss so maybe focus on that area and the parish of Sneem for possible details on him. No address is included for Bridget, but marriages generally took place in the bride's parish - so I'd start the search in Caherdaniel parish for her.


Shane

[SullyQuest]

There are 2 possibilities for Bridget when I put her name and Caherdaniel in the search menu for
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords
Name BRIDGET GRIFFIN 
Date of Birth 15 January 1840 (BASED ON OTHER DATE INFORMATION) 
Address SCACHANAGH 
Father JAMES NR 
Mother HONORA CUMBAW 
Sponsor 1 LAURENCE SULLIVAN
Sponsor 2 JULIA SHEA
Priest REV PATRICK O'CONNELL
    or
Name BRIDGET GRIFFEN 
Date of Birth 14 September 1837 (BASED ON OTHER DATE INFORMATION) 
Address SCAHANAGH 
Father TIMOTHY NR 
Mother GOBNET FALVY 
Sponsor 1 ANDREW SULLIVAN
Sponsor 2 ELLEN GRIFFEN
Priest REV PATRICK O'CONNELL
 
However, there were no other baptisms with the same parents and no marriage rocords for either parents.

[SullyQuest]

I went back to the church records website and found:
Michael and Mary Sullivan in Awevane(Auvane,Ouvane) with baptisms of Timothy 1830, Patrick 1836, Timothy 1839, and Michael 1842 . Perhaps the first Timothy died???
Where is Auvane?
The names of the sons and wife are the same as Bridget and Timothy's children. This seems rather hopeful, but where do I go from here?
Another thought is maybe there is a parish newsletter for Caherdaniel I could advertise my request for a genealogy connection to Tim and Bridget. What do you think?
Is there a Local newspaper for that area?
Thank you once again for any help you can provide.

[shanew147]

There are RC parish maps on the Irish Times website that might help see the layout of the area - Co. Kerry RC Parishes

As you can see from the map the two parishes mentioned earlier are adjacent on southern coast of the Ring of Kerry penninsula.

I'm not familiar with Awevane .. was that a parish or a residence ?

I'll have a look and see if I can locate it in relation to Sneem and Caherdaniel parishes


Shane

[SullyQuest]

from the church records website it indicates that it is a townland in Kilgarvan

[shanew147]

one of the baptisms that you mentioned : 

  Baptism of Timothy Sullivan - 2 February 1830
  Parish : Kilgarvan RC
  Residence : Auvane (townland)

Kilgarvan parish is not far to the east of Sneem parish.

I cant help with the modern parish details such as a newsletter - maybe a google search would give some details... or someone from the area could advise

The two closest major towns to try for newspapers would be Kenmare and Killarney


Shane

[SullyQuest]

Are Gallivan and Sullivan the same surname but mistranscribed?

Are the birth name and the baptism name usually the same?

Who is usually the witness to a marriage in 1830 to 1860's? or how is a witness chosen?

Who are sponsors for a baptism in 1830 to 1860's?   or
How are sponsors for a baptism in 1830 to 1860's chosen?


thank you for your help, Linda