Author Topic: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?  (Read 11126 times)

Offline Julesleeke

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Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« on: Friday 12 November 10 16:28 GMT (UK) »
Hello
I just thought I'd put this question out there:
Where in England did the English settlers come from who emmigrated to Ireland in the 17th and 18th centuries? Has any sort of study been made of this? I'm particularly keen to know about the origins of the 'small' English tenant farming families as opposed to the 'big house' families whose seats in England are more commonly referred to in historical documents, peerage manuscripts on so on. Is there a pattern to the way in which the news of 'available' land in Ireland/Ulster was disseminated across England at that time? Were there certain key places where groups of families emerged from?

Offline akanex2

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Re: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 12 November 10 16:49 GMT (UK) »
Not sure there is a specific area you could pin it down to, although most came over as tenants of the London livery companies - so more likely to have been from the London area you might imagine.  My own ancestors reputedly came from Yorkshire and Warwickshire though so really they came from all over!  The family story is they served in the army with Sir Thomas Phillips of Limavady and came to Ireland to live on his land (pre Londonderry plantation).

Offline owenc

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Re: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 12 November 10 19:53 GMT (UK) »
There ain't many english people in county londonderry but i would think that most of them came from derry/londonderry city and parts of coleraine as it would seem that they settled here where the london companies where.  Most of the settlers here are scottish shown in the great amount of presbyterians here versus church of ireland (very little). The most of them would've probably came from the north of england mostly deprived families and the odd upper class family who would've took over all of the land some of them still own the land here theres actually estate like a couple of miles down the road from me.

Offline owenc

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Re: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 12 November 10 19:56 GMT (UK) »
Not sure there is a specific area you could pin it down to, although most came over as tenants of the London livery companies - so more likely to have been from the London area you might imagine.  My own ancestors reputedly came from Yorkshire and Warwickshire though so really they came from all over!  The family story is they served in the army with Sir Thomas Phillips of Limavady and came to Ireland to live on his land (pre Londonderry plantation).

How do you know this where did the family get this idea out of are there any records that you have that may suggest this. Btw were your ancestors presbyterian or church of ireland because i have found a record of someone in my own family with the spelling of my name in the english form rather than the scottish form  and am now beginning to think we are english and this might be true as there are very little of us in the county (english families usually came in small numbers)  and the ones in county down all come from england and there are loads of them down there.


Offline owenc

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Re: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 12 November 10 20:00 GMT (UK) »
Could someone delete this.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 12 November 10 20:03 GMT (UK) »
There are early records of County Londonderry in the Guildhall Library, London.

Two very good reference books are by James Stevens Curl- both well indexed:

The Londonderry Plantation 1609-1914 (published 1986)

The Honourable The Irish Society and the Plantation of Ulster, 1608-2000 (published 2000)

Both cost £50 when first published so they may not be widely available for reference from many libraries.
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Offline akanex2

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Re: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 12 November 10 20:22 GMT (UK) »
Was just about to tell OwenC about those brilliant books by JS Curl - also good is "Coleraine in Bygone Centuries" by TH Mullin.

Also I disagree that there weren't many english settlers in the Londonderry plantation - I've found lots (although admittedly many more Scots have come since the initial plantation).  Also the London companies had estates covering ALL parts of the newly created "Co Londonderry", not just in the 2 main towns.  My ancestors were Church of Ireland and, by marrying mostly within their own church, many of the family names in my family tree are of english origin.

I would also have thought that most english settlers of a humble background would be likely to be the Londoners who came out as construction and other workers on the Company's estates.  Those from further afield are likely to have lived on the english estates of the more affluent settlers who acquired estates in ulster, like the Beresfords who came from Kent and became Marquises of Waterford with large estates around Coleraine.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 12 November 10 20:36 GMT (UK) »
Exactly. George Canning who was the Ironmonger's agent in 1640s came from Warwickshire and was supposed to have brought craftsmen with him and there are probably lots of other examples.
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Offline Gortinanima

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Re: Where did the English settlers in Derry/Londonderry come from?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 12 November 10 22:27 GMT (UK) »
The Londonderry Plantation was largely an English Plantation in the early 17th century - as mentioned many of the new settlements were built by the English and both the 'city' of Londonderry and the town of Coleraine were built primarily by English labour. A settlement was built as an executive headquaters for each of the 12 Company estate for example Ballykelly by the Fishmongers, and settlers lived in and around the villages as Derry was 'frontier territory' for the first four decades of the 17th century.  Indeed maps of these settlements exist and most of the settlers in the villages were English and lived in English style houses. Some of these craftsmen actually ended doing quite well and became landholders. In the early period the settlers faced constant attack from the Irish Woodkerne. Sir Thomas Phillips, a servitor, and Englishman [although with Welsh roots] was granted the manor of Limavady and in 1612 he built Newtownlimavady a mile upstream from the old town and brought 25 English families to populate the new town, which became a Borough under his influence. Most of the office holders in the Borough had English sounding names so N'Limavady was a very English town. But the English never came in great numbers and indeed the native Irish were able to rent farms on the Phillips estate much to the chagrin of Phillips.

Scots started to come in larger numbers in the 1630s and soon were equal in number to the English. The 1641 rebellion shattered the new Plantation and many of the English went home never to return. In the aftermath of the rebellion during the Protectorate in the 1650s there was a massive influx of Scottish into north of the county in particular in the Baronies of Coleraine, Keenaught and Tirkeeran from Londonderry through Limavady and across to Coleraine when something like a second Plantation took place. Thus, if one compares the 1663 hearth money rolls with the 1630 muster rolls there is a distinct increase in Scottish surnames and a decrease in English sounding names.  However, the English were still there and tended to be the landlords [for example Nicholas Lane in and around Ballykelly] and the Scots & Irish their tenants. Futher waves of Scots came in the 1660s and in the 1690's, and thus Presbyterian congregations were well established in many areas by the end of the century. The baptismal register for Ballykelly Presbyterian in the period 1699-1707 contains some 600 baptisms & the marriage register some 500 marriages in the years 1700-1728 showing that the Scottish colony was well established and embedded in the area [Ballykelly P Church served the Presbyterian inhabitants of Faughanvale, Tamlaght Finlagan and Magilligan].

It is very difficult to trace these early settlers back to Scotland or England - farmers and craftsmen leave little trace unlike the gentry and nobility. It may be possible if a settler had an unusual name. I have traced one family back to Scotland but they were minor landlords residing in the parish of Aghanloo, near Limavady - Abraham Hillhouse was listed with two hearths in the 1663 returns in Artikelly. He died in 1676 leaving a wife Janet and two known sons, Abraham Hillhouse jun his eldest son [received the 2 Largies & was at the siege of Derry] and his second son John Hillhouse received the manor house called Freehall and a fairly sizeable estate. Abraham Hillhouse senior also offset a tenement in the town of Irvine in Ayrshire upon his death so I assume that is where the family was from. But this is the exception rather than the norm in the course of research.

One could strike lucky for example in the Irvine parish registers of 1689 was the following baptism '7 July 1689: Elizabeth Fleeming, lau[ful]'ll daughter to James Fleeming & Jane Moor, parishe of Bellskellie [Ballykelly] & Co of Londonderrie in Irland, baptized'. This family appear to have gone home to their roots for refuge during the Williamite wars in Ireland, and the 'siege of Derry' ended three weeks after the child was baptised.

The key is to keep digging and to keep looking for the source material relating to the region where our ancestors resided. It is the sources that throw up the names. Keep a note of neighbours and kinsmen and think laterally because with the laws of diminishing returns it becomes fruitless if one just concentrates only on the family name. The good genealogist is also a good local historian.