Author Topic: Oliver family of East London  (Read 10261 times)

Offline Loulabelle80

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #18 on: Friday 09 September 11 12:33 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I believe I am a relation to a couple of you posting here and was speaking to my dad last night. He is Robert Oliver - son of Ernest Oliver who was the last of the Oliver's to work at the Whitechapel Bell Foundry.
It would be great if you could get in touch, I am also trying to research the family history.

Many thanks,

L Oliver

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Offline rocala

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 10 September 11 21:20 BST (UK) »
Hi All

The work continues. I have found a James Oliver, a couple of years younger than Chas snr. They both married Leatherhead girls and were both carpenters. I have a very strong suspicion that they were brothers. Sadly James seems to have died pre 1841 census.

Could he be the 'J' in the 'C & J Oliver' mentioned in Valda's reply 21/12/10 ?

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Offline stephen leo

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 07 June 12 18:12 BST (UK) »
Hello Rocala,

I just registered on Rootsweb so I could respond to your post. 

I am directly descended from Archelaus Brailiford Oliver through his daughter Eliza or Lizzie, born 1858 or 1859. 

Lizzie married my Gt Grandfather Duncan McNab Conner on April 29th 1882.

I have done some research on the family and their bell-ringing background.  I got some direct help from the Whitchapel Bell Foundry.

I'd be glad to share what I know and learn more about other Oliver lines and hear from surviving Olivers.

Regards

Stephen


Offline rocala

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 07 June 12 20:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Stephen

I am afraid that since my last post I have got no further with the Olivers. There is however a lot of info now and interest in the Brailsfords. It seems they did well for themselves after the Norman conquest so there is a lot of material about them. This is my current work in progress.

Anything that you got from the Foundry (or any source) would be of great interest to me. Good luck in your research.

Regards

Bob

Offline stephen leo

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #22 on: Friday 08 June 12 08:59 BST (UK) »
Hi Bob,

I will dust down my information on the Oliver connections and post it here. It will take me a few days to get to it.

It's nothing dramatically better than other info on the thread, and my line on the Olivers leads away from the main line of descent. But it sheds some light on Archelaus and his family.

best,

Stephen

Offline stephen leo

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 10 June 12 15:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Bob,

My sister and shared a research project on a ‘lost’ side of our ancestry, and the Olivers appeared.  The records led to some confusion about the extended Oliver clan, and we had not understood the correct spelling of ‘Brailsford’ and its variants. 

Your information on the descent of Brailsford has helped fill in the origin of the family name Archelaus, among many other things.  I now learn of the Leatherhead Brallsford/Brilsford/Bretsford Braislford, whose head was Archelaus, perhaps born around 1760. He seems to come down from the Derbyshire branch 'seated' at Egstow Hall.

What we know about our Oliver ancestry perhaps sheds a little light, or at least offers a possible interpretation, of the bell-hanging profession in the C19.  I now suspect it was quite a desirable or lucrative trade, with entry restricted to family connections, and perhaps further restricted by a limited availability of positions.

Archelaus Brailsford Oliver (1840-1900), our Great Great Grandfather, was the brother of William Oliver (1842-1907), your Great Great Grandfather (we are therefore 4th cousins!). 

Archelaus and William were the sons (with Frederick and Charles) of Charles and Ann Oliver, and grandchildren of Charles Oliver and Maria Brelsford/Brailsford.

In 1861 Archelaus and Charles were living in St Clement Danes parish, and Archelaus is a ‘violinist’ and Charles an ‘organist’.  Their father is a clockmaker.

In 1882, when witnessing the marriage in Croyden of his daughter Lizzie to Duncan McNab Conner, he is a ‘Professor of Music’.  This might mean a teacher, or a musician; it certainly doesn’t mean what it means today.

But nine years later, in 1891, he is a bell-hanger, living in Croyden.  So it took him most of his lifetime to become a bell-hanger, in middle age. He died in Greenwich in 1900.

Archelaus seems to have fathered Lizzie nine years before marrying her mother, Eliza Beal, of Bristol. Perhaps it was hard making a living as a musician, and bell-hanging was more secure and better-paid.

Some of difficulty in untangling the Oliver tree arises from the 1841 census entry for Charles Oliver, carpenter, of Stepney.  It has to be understood that a large family is living together, but two adult men are missing on census night.

His son, George, is a Founder – therefore works in a foundry, likely a bell foundry, likely Whitechapel.  He has a brother, Charles, (christened in Leatherhead in 1809) who is absent on the night of the census. He too is a bell-hanger, in the 1851 census, now head of his own family – Archelaus, Charles, William, Frederick yet to arrive, in Whitechapel.

For some time, I had the impression that there were two Archelaus Olivers living in London at the same time, unlikely as it seemed, but now things are becoming clearer.

I had some connections with the Founders Livery Company and they helped me get information from the Whitechapel Bell Foundry, who wrote to me that –

“Members of the Oliver family worked here continuously from 1738 until about 30 years ago. The last Oliver, Ernie, worked exclusively musical with handbells. However his forebears undertook most other tasks, including bell hanging.”

I feel sure that these multiple craft skills, showing up for various Olivers, were interchangeable in that they were all aspects of the trades carried on from Whitechapel Bell Foundry, or subcontracted.  Moulds and bell frames were carpentry jobs.

Charles Oliver the clockmaker may have been making clocks for church towers rather than mantelpieces. This would also have involved foundry work.

That Archelaus and Charles were violinist and organist might connect them with church orchestras, or the church generally, where organs gradually displayed instrumental orchestras.  I’m sure the whole community was intertwined.

I found a picture of Ernie Oliver on the internet.  I remain very interested with all the connections to historic and present-day London that the Oliver dynasty represent, and I rather hoped to make a connection to the living descendants.  I’d be very interested to hear more about the family from Ernie’s grandson and his father Robert.

Meanwhile, I have looked at the Brailsfords and they are quite a dynasty… They use the Christian names Hercules and Archelaus, which are in fact Roman and Greek versions of the same name, in alternate generations, presumably to distinguish one from another.  I will do some more looking but would be grateful for information from others.

Regards,

Stephen




Offline stephen leo

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 10 June 12 18:06 BST (UK) »
Correction - … Archelaus (Achelaus) and Hercules are distinct and different figures in mythology and famously fought each other.  Maybe that was a Brailsford family joke…

Stephen

Offline avotier

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #25 on: Monday 11 June 12 15:59 BST (UK) »
I have just rejoined Roots an just seen your message regarding the OLIVERS of East London.I had hit a brick wall regarding EDGAR OLIVER wondered if you had him in your family.Cant find a birth have found a marriage to  Sylvia M.Murphy 1959 and thats it.My fingers are crossed.


     regards
          Ann       


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Offline jho2me

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Re: Oliver family of East London
« Reply #26 on: Friday 08 February 13 19:18 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

I believe I am a relation to a couple of you posting here and was speaking to my dad last night. He is Robert Oliver - son of Ernest Oliver who was the last of the Oliver's to work at the Whitechapel Bell Foundry.
It would be great if you could get in touch, I am also trying to research the family history.

Many thanks,

L Oliver

Hi Loulabelle80,

My grandfather, John E. Oliver, was Ernie's brother.

I have little proof, mostly just verbally handed down from my father.

John E. Oliver, son of Bert Oliver, was eldest of 11 children.
John E. Oliver left school and started working for Whitechapel Bell Foundry to carry on the tradition.
He left the bell foundry when his father Bert Oliver died to join the army, the 6th Dragoon Guards, a Calvary regiment; the 3rd Carabiniers. (Bert's death must have been pre 1930 and believe he died at a relatively young age).
Known residence John E. Oliver:
1944 - 17a Lett Road, Stratford. 1944 the front of the house was blown off by a V1 rocket, (witnessed by my dad, the door was apparently still standing, no one was home).
1945 - 19 Ferndale Road, Leytonstone.

Before leaving the foundry John E. Oliver's younger brother, Ernie, started work at the foundry to carry on the Oliver tradition. I believe Ernie made bells for 57 years at Whitechapel before he died.


The King and Queen (George V and Queen Mary) visited the Bell Foundry in March 1919 to christen the new Peace Bell for Westminster Abbey. Bert Oliver played on a peal of bells for Queen Mary. He asked the Queen what she would like him to play. She selected the famous Irish ballad, Eileen Alannah. Her Majesty, accompanied our grandfather by singing the tune right through.
So by deduction; Bert Oliver, our great grandfather, was definitely working for the Whitechapel Bell Foundry in 1919. Presume Bert was using hand bells to play the tune “Eileen Alannah” and must therefore been very confident and accomplished at playing them.

Regards
John H. Oliver
Dallas Texas