Author Topic: Ayres family location in 18th century  (Read 44049 times)

Offline DeMaille

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Re: Ayres family location in 18th century
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 10 March 11 23:07 GMT (UK) »
A quick sweep on the internet gives several possibilities for the origin of Ayres as a surname.  It is suggested as being from a Scottish noble house, a Norman who was with William the Conquerer at Hastings, and there is an alternate (and quite convincing) explanation of it as having early medieval origins, at which time it became necessary to have a surname.  I have to say that I don't think it sounds like a Romany name.  I do have a Lee in another line - now that sounds more convincing!

Offline Redroger

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Re: Ayres family location in 18th century
« Reply #10 on: Friday 11 March 11 16:36 GMT (UK) »
My source of the Ayres name having possible gypsy connections is another rootschatter, based in Ireland who informed me that the Ayres' were show people, though like you I am convinced that any such connection is a very long way back.I will try to find the thread and if I am successful post details on this thread.Stuben Ayres and Hannah Pratt were one set of my 4X Great grandparents. You will be aware of the intertwined nature of the Ayres Cornwell (and virtually the rest of the village) tree, and of the fact that you are related to the WW1 hero Jack Cornwell VC. I think an exchange of personal messages might be helpful.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

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Re: Ayres family location in 18th century
« Reply #11 on: Friday 11 March 11 16:47 GMT (UK) »
The rootschatter who gave me the information is Steve G. I would also draw your attention to the travelling people Forum on this site. Stuben Ayres was the son of Henry Ayres who died at Little Wilbraham in 1753 and his wife Elizabeth Stubbings. Henry may have been the son of Richard Ayres on whom I have no further information other than that he had two other children Richard (b1674) and Mary (b1676). I don't even know the name of his wife.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline NettieS

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Re: Ayres family location in 18th century
« Reply #12 on: Friday 11 March 11 16:51 GMT (UK) »

Roger is correct in saying that the surname Ayres does have gypsy connections.

This is taken from the Romany Routes Journal.

Most surnames used by Gypsies are also common in the "Gorjer" or non-Gypsy population. The best known and most widespread Gypsy families include:

Boswell, Buckland, Faa, Hearn, Heron, Lee, Lovell, Smith, Wood, Young.

The following families all travelled in southern England:

Ayres, Baker, Ball, Barnes, Barney, Bartlett, Bath, Beaney, Beckett, Birch, Black, Blackman, Bland, Bowers, Brazil, Buckley, Bull, Burton, Bushnell, Butler, Camfield, Carey, Carrington, Castle, Chapman, Clark, Cole/Coles, Collins, Coneley, Cooper, Cox, Cripps, Crocker, Crutcher/Croucher/Kircher, Curtis, Davis/Davies, Dawes, Deacon/Deakins, Dixon, Doe, Draper, Duckett, Eastwood, Elliot, Essex, Frankham, Giles, Golby, Green, Gregory, Griggs, Gritt, Groves, Hall, Harfield, Harris, Hibberd, Hicks, Hughes, Isaacs, James, Jeffs, Johnson, Jones, Keet, Kempster, King, Kircher, Lakey, Lamb, Lambert, Lane, Light, Loveridge, Matthews, Miller, Mills, Mitchell, Mustow, Newland, Odam, Orchard, Page, Pannell, Parker, Pateman, Penfold/Pinfold, Peters, Pidgley, Pike, Proudley, Rawlings/Rollins, Ray, Roberts, Rose, Rowell, Rowland/Rowlands, Sanders/Saunders, Scamp, Scott, Sheen, Sherred/Sherrard, Sherwood, Sines, Small, Stanley, Stevens/Stephens, Stokes, Stratton, Tanner, Taylor, Thompson, Turner, Vincent, Wells, Wenman, Wheeler, White, Willett, Williams, Willis.
This list is by no means exhaustive.

 Further names are given on the Journal page.
Bramwell -  Derbyshire and Bolton
Pottinger -  Gloucestershire, Berkshire
James- Gloucestershire
Rawley, Wheeler - Middlesex
Nicholls, Nichols -  Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire
Lee, Porter - Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire
Bowers, Coxall, Coe, Dawkins, Hawkins, Horspoole, Rule - Cambridgeshire
Stoughton - Bedfordshire
Stewart - Stirlingshire,  Glasgow and Edingburgh
Tulloch - Orkney Islands
Liddell - Stirlingshire, Lanarkshire
Tulloch, Wilson, Stevenson, Baxter, Muir, Boag - Scotland


Offline Redroger

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Re: Ayres family location in 18th century
« Reply #13 on: Friday 11 March 11 16:58 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for that Nettie, A quick glance shows that I have at least five of these surnames in my direct ancestry so i am more of a mongrel than I believed. Though my contention and belief that a widespread surname is a pointer to travelling roots has not been supported it still seems to me to be entirely logical that this is the case.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline NettieS

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Re: Ayres family location in 18th century
« Reply #14 on: Friday 11 March 11 17:17 GMT (UK) »


Hi Roger,

I just wanted to show that the surname Ayres does have a gypsy connection, I do know that the following surnames Boswell, Buckland, Faa, Hearn, Heron, Lee, Lovell, Smith, Wood, Young are the most widespread of the Gypsy families in the UK as the Journal says.

As for the other surnames well we could all lay claim to some of them but as the Journal also says the surnames are common in the non Gypsy population as well.

Regards
Lyne
Bramwell -  Derbyshire and Bolton
Pottinger -  Gloucestershire, Berkshire
James- Gloucestershire
Rawley, Wheeler - Middlesex
Nicholls, Nichols -  Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire
Lee, Porter - Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire
Bowers, Coxall, Coe, Dawkins, Hawkins, Horspoole, Rule - Cambridgeshire
Stoughton - Bedfordshire
Stewart - Stirlingshire,  Glasgow and Edingburgh
Tulloch - Orkney Islands
Liddell - Stirlingshire, Lanarkshire
Tulloch, Wilson, Stevenson, Baxter, Muir, Boag - Scotland

Offline Redroger

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Re: Ayres family location in 18th century
« Reply #15 on: Friday 11 March 11 17:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lyne, And thanks for that. The Ayres surname does seem to be widespread across southern England particularly, and, as a result of 19th century migrations i know of at least two in the 1891 census who were in the north east of England (Teeside) who in the 1891 census show their birthplace as Bottisham/Lode Cambs. One is working as a crane driver on the docks in 1891, and I thought what a change from his occupation in 1881 Ag. Lab. Whether it was an imporovement in his lifestyle is certainly open to discussion I would think.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline DeMaille

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Ayres family
« Reply #16 on: Friday 11 March 11 21:06 GMT (UK) »
As far as I can see, what Nettie has posted suggests that Romani familes adopted surnames from the host country.   There is a possibility that descent may be from a Romani individual, but there is a stronger possibility that decent is from the general population who bore these names.  Stronger possibility - indeed a probability - because of the cultural differences between the Romanies and the population of England (they tended not to marry in, nor to settle) and because of the number of Romany people was very small compared with the population of the country.  There may have been showground people who travelled around, but are these 'gypsies'.

What we need is proof of the connection.  What is the evidence that the Ayres in Bottisham Lode were descended from a Romany family or from travelling showground people?   

Offline Redroger

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Re: Ayres family location in 18th century
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 12 March 11 18:45 GMT (UK) »
I agree that proof would be needed to prove the link, probably a Y chromosome DNA test by a male Ayres with a known gypsy descent Ayres is the only way, as my descent is from the female line I am unable to provide the necessary genetic evidence, but there are male Ayres researchers who might.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)