Bron y Foel Hall Llandwrog, was it a hall, can't find any info

[Rol]

Goodness,  Emyr,  you have made terrific progress with this puzzle since I last posted -- well done indeed!

When I first saw your reference in Reply 23 to that 1838 Colling baptism at Bronyfoel,  my thoughts darted straight back to

1861 census ... 52.  Plas Colliu [or conceivably terminal letter n]

When searching the Gale database again my suspicions about that last letter had already been revived by an item in the Baner ac Amserau Cymru of 2 Jan. 1861 -- a report of an eisteddfod (held the preceding 22 December) organised by the Cilgwyn and Tryfan Literary Society,  in which "W. W. Jones,  Plas collin" won a first prize for recitation and came joint third in a contest for pennillion composition.

And now it all falls into place,  thanks to your latest post and the John Collins info you have found in Dewi Tomos's book (drawing on John Griffith's opus of 1889).  Presumably the "hall" would have been a re-build/extension of  a pre-existing farmhouse known as plain Bronyfoel.  One wonders whether the locals originally re-christened the place "Plas" or "Hall" in a mildly satirical spirit!

The 1911 double-naming really does seem to tie the matter up:

I've now had a look at the 1911 Census. When you look at the copy of the form filled in by the occupier of what is recorded as Plas Colli, he has written Bronyfoel Hall as the name of the dwelling.

It is also good news that you have been able to take a look at the PRs and confirm both that the Q4 1858 GRO index entry related to the right marriage (ref. Reply 10),  and that Catherine and Winifred Mk.1 were indeed twins (ref. Reply 9).  I remember having difficulty finding a suitable civil BMD entry for the death of the first Winifred;  the last para of your post of yesterday seems to solve that problem neatly.

I do hope that Joan (Treelover) is still taking the occasional look at the thread and so can benefit from your latest discoveries.


Rol

[Treelover]

Gosh -  I have just spent the best part of 30 minutes trying to catch up with everything I have missed.

Firstly computer problems, then personal problems have kept me away.  I'm so amazed at how much information has been found and how many people are following and researching this thread.

I cannot thank you enough for all the information you have found, it is so kind of you to give your time.

WOW

Joan

[EmyrBorth]

Hi
A mansion was built "not far from Cilgwyn Quarry" for the manager, in the mid 1830s. The company got into financial difficulties and work stopped. For months the workers were paid irregularly, often getting only a month's pay when they were owed a few months pay. The quarry closed down without the house ever being occupied. The workers who were owed money, and possibly others, stripped the building. I suspect that the ruin that the current Plas Colli is attached to is the stripped mansion, and that Plas Colli is the house built for Collins. I don't know what the stripped house was called; might have been Bronyfoel Hall. Collins's house was called Bronyfoel Hall, but referred to as Plas Collins by the locals. I'm still making enquirires. I've spoken to a person who tells me she knows the family who have farmed the land around Plas Colli for a few generations, and she's going to ask them what they know about this topic.
A local poet has written a poem about the matter of stripping the house built for the Cilgwyn Quarry manager. One verse appears in one book I've read, but did not contain any useful information. I've seen the full poem somewhere, but didn't read it, and now I don't remember where ! Hopefully I'll be able to trace it, and with luck might contain some useful info.
Emyr
 

[big g]

Further to an earlier post of mine re 1911 census, Hugh Parry Jones,  on transcription page it said Plas Coli, and on original  page, Hugh had written Bronyfoel Hall - it had nine rooms.

I found another entry for Plas Coli,  John Griffiths born 1886, Llanllechid and his family, both on transcription and original - it had three rooms.

 

Glenys

[EmyrBorth]

Hi
You have previously referred to this. The Enumerator has made a bit of a mess in addressing the forms.
Realised I hadn't posted to say that my suggestion that Bronyfoel Hall was built on site of Plas Cilgwyn, which was stripped by the quarry workers when the company went bankrupt owing money to them, was incorrect. Plas Cilgwyn is shown on old maps above Cilgwyn Quarry.
Emyr

[dcbnwh]

I am not sure if this helps but in 1881, Bron y Foel and Bron y Foel School show on the census. Bron y Foel is next to Meillionydd, which is still there, as is the school.

Bron y Foel dosen't show on the 1889 map but Plas-Colley is roughly where you would expect to find it.

Go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk and type in the post code LL54 7BG or Plas Coli

For a modern map, the best bet is probably http://www.bing.com/maps/ and look at the Ordnance Survey option.

David

PS - see also http://www.getschool.co.uk/profile/ysgol-bron-y-foel-caernarfon.html

[Andrew Conant]

Re: Bron y Foel Hall. I am the current occupier of Plas Colli. My wife and I have owned the property since 1994. When we bought the house, it had stood empty for a number of years and was being used as a shelter by sheep. During renovation works, a beam was discovered in the roof which had been inscribed with the date "Aug 1837" in white chalk. The house was originally built for the manager of the nearby "Pen yr Orsedd" quarry, which was a very prosperous enterprise at that time. The managers name was Collins and the house became known locally as "Plas Collins". This later mutated to "Plas Colly" (and other variants). NB. The word "Plas" is Welsh for "Hall". In the past, the house has also been known as "Bron y Foel Hall". The local school (built in 1844) was also named Bron y Foel (which roughly translates to "Breast of the Hill"). The village is named "Y Fron" (The Breast - NB. The Welsh word "Bron" mutates to "Fron" after the word "Y", Welsh for "The"). There was never an actual hall on the site, although there are nearby remains of hut circles from early occupation of the area. The derelict building attached to the main house was constructed at a later stage, probably to accommodate service staff. It was deliberately set alight in about 1989 by a previous owner, in a failed attempt to fraudulently obtain insurance compensation, after the owners had defaulted on their mortgage. The annexe at the rear of the main house was added as a dairy during the time the adjacent land was farmed by the then occupants. Butter was churned using power from a small waterwheel attached to the building, driven by water which was ditched from Llyn Ffynnonau, at the bottom of Mynydd Mawr. I hope this helps.

[big g]

Andrew,

Think I have mentioned in  a previous posting................Death certificate dated 14 January 1909, for my gt. grandmother who died 30th December 1908, Jane Jones of Ysgubor, Nantlle,  informant her son, my Taid, Robert Owen Jones of Bronyfoel Hall, Cesarea, Llandwrog.

I don't know how long he, my Nain, and their five children lived at Bronyfoel Hall, as in 1905 they were in Kirkdale, Liverpool; 1909 they were in Bootle, Liverpool. 1901 they were living Cae Haidd, Rhostryfan, Llandwrog.

My nain's mother, plus her twin brother and sister were at this time living Meillionyd, Cesarea - very close  to Bronyfoel Hall!.

Glenys