Lighterman or Corn meter..or both?

[caterpillar20]

I'm wondering whether anyone can enlighten me as to if there is any possible relationship between lightermen and corn meters. I ask as I have a John William Thomas Grant born ca 1853 whose father is listed as John W Grant corn meter on a marriage certificate for 1873. I also have the two Johns in the 1861 census, where John sr is again a corn meter. So far I have found only one birth record for a John William Thomas Grant, which is for 1853 (and so seems a strong match) BUT John sr's occupation is given as lighterman. My understanding is that lighterman tended to be a fairly fixed career (often father to son apprenticeships etc), so it would seem slightly odd to abandon that occupation and become a corn meter. I have had a quick look at the lighterman records at LMA, but couldn't find anything that might suggest John sr left under a cloud (which would seem to me the obvious reason for him giving up), but I might have been looking in the wrong place or might be simply assuming too much...

[t mo]

hello caterpillar
just looked up old occupations to see what a corn meter did and he was an official who weighed corn at a market i,ve never come across that before , now your rellie when he was a lighterman was this in london or surrounding area ? , have you seen the site parishregister.com it ,s the definative site for watermen and lightermen the difference being a waterman was allwed tonavigate and pilot passenger vessels on the thames where as a lighterman worked on barges ferrying goods back and forth on the thames  , so if he left the water to become a corn meter sounds like a good move to me it may have been because of ill health may be he just wanted a drier job but if he was working in the corn exchanges of the day as i say sounds fine to me and probably just as important as well .
trevor

[caterpillar20]

Sorry, should have said. This is all east end of London (roughly St George in the East). The lighterman John marries Mary Ann Bulling in 1852. John William Thomas Grant is baptized later that same year (another shotgun wedding....). I can find no verifiable trace of Mary Ann after this. I have found John Grant corn meter lodging with his son John W Grant in 1861, but that's when he switches to corn meter. There is a lighterman John Grant born ca 1827 in Woodford convalescent Home in 1871, though... Obviously what I hope to do is prove (or disprove) that the lighterman and the corn meter are one and the same person, all I have is the relatively rare name John William Thomas Grant to bridge that gap, but I'm not convinced it's enough......

[t mo]

that,s fine we all do it but it,s best to clarify , so st geo in the east that was my grand dads neck of the woods his father was a lighterman as well so we are in the right area , as to the name although on sight it looks rare being so long do bear in mind that a lot of folk especially at census time didn,t always write out the whole thing so you can miss them i,ve been had like that myself with my rellies , as i say look up the parishregisters site cos not only have they a lot of info on watermen and lightermen but as the name suggest quite a few parish regs as well , will have a look a bout to see if i can help
trevor

[[Ray]]

Hi

*** Subsequently proved not so (Valda's next post) ***

Could this be why you could not find her?
eg died in child birth say

Mary Ann Grant
Death Mar 1853 Poplar 1c 475

Ray

[Valda]

Hi


On the 1861 census John Grant gives his status as married not a widower

1861 census RG9 278 folio 53
27 Curvley? Street St George in the East
John Grant 34 Lodger Married Corn Meter City Middlesex
John W Grant 8 Lodger St George in the East Middlesex

1851 census HO107 1548 folio 124
14 Phillips Street St George in the East
Mary Ann Bulling 18 Head Unmarried Seamstress St Geo East Middlesex
Mary Edwards 19 Visitor Unmarried St Geo East Middlesex

1861 census RG9 358 folio 22
2 Ely Place Lambeth, Surrey
Thomas Lawtone 30 Unmarried Fireman Samsworth? Cheshire (Gawsworth)
Mary Ann Grant 28 Visitor Married  ?ress St Georges East, Middlesex   
 

The burial in Poplar in 1853 is a child


Regards

Valda

[[Ray]]

Hi

in 1871 St Pancras, Somers Town, District 21, Page 75, RG 10 228 74

There is a John TW Grant(36y) with Mary Ann Grant(34y) + a family
Posted for info, ages do not agree with previous posts/findings

Ray

(Sorry about me flitting in/out, got a houseful of invalids and cooking lunch!!)

[caterpillar20]

Thanks for the info so far. Much appreciated. I had done some work trying to trace Mary Ann Bulling and what you're posting matches what I've found - so that, at least, is promising. I am starting to suspect that the only way to resolve this is to trawl through the lightermen records with a fine tooth comb. If John Sr still appears in their records as a lighterman post 1860, I'm back to square one, if he vanishes, I may be on to something....

[Plummiegirl]

My g/grandfather was a Thames Lighterman in his younger years, but later changed his occupation and went to work as a Linesman for the GPO.

This was in the early 1900's.  This was at the time when the river was still a thriving place to work, so I never really understood why he changed his occupation other than he married and had children and wanted a more "regular"income which came from working for the GPO.

If I am right many man working on the docks and on the river would have been day workers and this was not conjusive to a regular income.  And for watermen unless they owned a boat or boats they too would have been reliant on being "picked" for that days work.

I have heard stories of men in Rotherhithe waiting for work and waiting for several hours in the very early morning and not being able to leave until all men had  been chosen.  And when the men had left there would have been a myriad of human excrement etc., where the men had been too scared to leave so went where they stood.    So although the passing of the docks is a sad thing, the working practices will not be that sorely missed.   Sometimes it was also a case of favourites being picked and those not liked by the foreman(men) would be left for weeks without work, just on the whim of another man!