Haldanes of Colmonell, Ayrshire

[Panrider]

Hi Lesley and Roberta

I've been following your conversation with interest and have now tracked down my Margaret Haldane who turned out to be much older than I had expected.  If I read it correctly, there is a possible family group consisting of John Haldane (1706),  a James Haldane (married to Jean Hettrick), a Jean Haldane (married to Hugh Aitken) and a Gilbert Haldane (married (?) to Jean Logan). 

Is there anything to link these people, who all seem to have children born in Colmonell between 1766 - 1772ish, to Mungo Haldane and Jane Leishman?  I haven't been able to find anything other than another child for Mungo and Janet, a daughter Jannet born in 1707 in Kippen.  Clearly the family moved about a lot and I'm wondering why and what brought them from Perth/Stirling to Colmonell in the mid 1700s. 

Catherine

[rmgm]

Hi Catherine

The John Haldane (Hadden) 1706, is reported to be the son of Mungo Haldane and Jenat Leashman - some believe it and some don't.  The others probably mare relatives - maybe brothers?

I figure that the poor people moved around frequently with the hope to get employment or better employment.  I think the wealthy moved around obtain land - probably granted for some great deed or because they were not the eldest son who would normally inherit the family estate.  There are many reasons.

Lesley is much more knowledgeable than I about the Haldane tribe.  She will probably reply in greater depth than I.

Roberta

[tigger88]

Hello Catharine and Roberta
Not sure that I agree with you Roberta about being more knowledgeable about the Haldane clan, I guess I'm abit pedantic about trying to get the right facts which in this case means the right people!

Today I found something else to put in the mix, I have found two marriages [or proclamations/banns] for Mungo Haldan, one to Janet Leishman on 24/4/1692 in Auchterarder, Perth then one to Eliz Thomson 21/10/1694 also in Auchterarder, Perth.  But I have found 3 children to Mungo and Janet:
Jannet 2/11/1707
John 28/4/1706 [our 3 x gf]
Agnas (sic) 12/2/1703

No children found to ElizThomson but I don't think the marriage went ahead as often banns were called but no marriage took place.    Also, I'm wondering why there is such a big gap from the first proclamation to the birth of the first child.  If Mungo was born in 1636 as scotlands people tells me, he would have been in his 70's by the time the kids were born.   So do we have the correct father?  I can only find one birth of a Mungo Haldane, son of John Haldane and Margaret Fraser.  Unless the spelling is way off track.

As far as the other names go, the only link I can find as said is John Haldane.  James b. 1761 parents seem to be John McIlwrick [?] and Margaret Haldane, not sure where she fits, could she be yours Catherine?  The only Gilbert I found was born in 1803 to William Haldane and Jean Kennedy.
Probably the family moved around because of land problems as Roberta said.  I wondered if it was because of the highland clearances [my Scottish geography is a bit weak ] but Perth and Stirling seem to be 'on the flat'.   Maybe they moved to Colmonell to be near the sea?   Just a theory.

Look forward to more discussion, it would be so great if there were census' we could look at to help prove the families!

Cheers
Lesley

PS I'm still trying to verify a William Haldane b. 1800 to William and Jean H.   The MI's I have looked at seem to confirm Wm son of Wm and Jean [Jane] died aged 17, so am not sure where your Wm is Roberta.   Sometimes you feel like tearing your hair out 

[Panrider]

Hi Lesley and Roberta

I agree the dates don't fit. It looks to me like there is a generation missing however John Haldane (1706) was an old man for his time when the children were born in Colmonell. Possibly an earlier marriage in another part of the country?  I'm speculating here but perhaps the James, Jean and Gilbert are not his siblings but his children. 

[James b. 1761 parents seem to be John McIlwrick [?] and Margaret Haldane, not sure where she fits, could she be yours ]

No, not this one, I hadn't found her. Perhaps another sibling/daughter of John (1706).  My Margaret's parents were James Haldane and Jean Hettrick. Just to throw something else into the pot, she was born in Dalrymple, Ayrshire and they married there. Certainly an itinerant family.

An interesting puzzle - let's solve it!
Catheirne

[Panrider]

Okay, I've found more children for Mungo and Janet.

John and David (twins) 17/02/1701 Port of Monteith
Agnas 12/02.1703 Port of Monteith
John 28/02/1706 Port of Monteith
Jannet 02/11/1707 Kippen, Stirling

There are losts of Haldanes/Haddens in Kippen among them a marriage of Mungo Hadden to Janet Gilfillan in 1738 - surely a missing son; also a Mungo Hadden to Grizal Galbraith

Working on the theory that John (1706) was married previously, there is a marriage of John Haldane to Helen Buchanan in Kippen on 13/02/1732. Haven't found any definite children yet.

I don't understand the reference to Eliz Thomson - he was already married to Janet Leishman and she was certainly still alive at the time! A cousin perhaps?

Catherine

[rmgm]

Hi Lesley and Catherine

There is a  Margaret Haldane (22 Jul 1654-17 Feb 1722) ,  daughter of Mungo Haldane (13th of Gleneagles, d. 1685)  and Ann Grant.  Margaret's brothers were David (1738) and John (14th of Gleneagles) the father of Mungo Haldane (15th of Gleneagles 1682-1755).

The marriage Banns could have been read when the children were still very young; Mungo would have been only 10 years old, if the above date is accurate.  This did occur and  children were promised to each other by parents who wanted more lands and retain power, etc. 

[Panrider]

Hi Roberta and Lesley

I'm now thinking we have the wrong trail after all.  Looking at all the Hadden/Haldane names in Colmonell wouldn't you expect to see a Mungo somewhere? The family you refer to Roberta are 'landed gentry' holding titles and I think this is the  line in Auchterarder and Kippen. I'm just not seeing them in Colmonell.  This doesn't get any clearer so I think I'll go back to the original parish records and see if any clues turn up in the wording. Will  let you know if I fid anything.

Catherine

[tigger88]

What a puzzle this is all turning out to be 

Just how do we prove any of this?
I have got a certificate of the marriage of my John Haldane to Elizabeth McIlwain, but trying to find the right grandparents of John is proving difficult.

My brain is going into overload trying to figure it all out.

Must try and find out why the family moved to Colmonell if John's father is indeed Mungo.
Having a copy of the monumental inscription of John Haldane b. 1706 and his wife Agnes b. c 1736 gives us more information that we assume is correct.   Why would anyone put wrong names or dates on a gravestone?

So far this is what I have:
John 1706-1787 and Agnes McConchie 1736-1790   Cannot find their marriage date, but as the first child was born 1762, you would think it would be around that time.

Their children:
William 1762-1836 married Jean Kennedy [marriage date not found]
John     1765-1840 married Elizabeth McIlwain 15/4/1790
Thomas 1768-?
Hugh     1770 - ?
Agnes    1775 - ?

Am still looking for more on Hugh, Agnes, and Thomas.

Look forward to the next episode:

Lesley

[Panrider]

Hi Lesley and Roberta

I've caught up on the Haldane discussions on GenForum and had some more thoughts about it - nothing coherent you understand!

Firstly, looking at my Margaret's birth/christening record, her parents are listed as 'in Kirkhill'. There's a mansion there now and a ruined castle but the mansion wasn't built until after the time we're talking about and so there may have been a house there before that. If it refers to Kirkhill Castle, then these particular Haldanes may have been tennants on the land or in service at the castle.

All this speculation then made me wonder about why they were there. I can't think of any link between the Haldanes of Gleneagles and the Kennedys (who built the castle) but I did think about building and since William Haldane and his son were both masons I wondered if that's why they had come here. Perhaps the family were originally masons who must have moved about to where the work was. It might explain why we've uncovered so many Haldanes in the eighteenth century and why we're reduced to one family, a blacksmith, at Lendalfoot in 1841.

Catherine