Author Topic: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?  (Read 6813 times)

Offline Neil Todd

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Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« on: Thursday 10 February 11 19:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi I am researching the family of Charles Todd b1826 Chelsea. I have come up against a stumbling block with his ancestors. His father Griffith c1799 was supposedly born Chelsea but the previous generations IE: George 1760-1825,
has no record of where born nor his father Henry c 1740. ???

Charles made a name for himself by setting up The Overland Telegraph from Adelaide to Darwin in 1860's Australia which allowed communication back to England. He was Knighted By Queen Victoria.

Neil
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Online CaroleW

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Re: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 10 February 11 19:36 GMT (UK) »
Griffith Todd married Mary Parker 25.7.1822 at St Katherine Coleman London
One of the witnesses signatures lookes like G G Todd

Submitted IGI entry
     
GRIFFITH TODD   Birth:  01 MAY 1799  Christening:  20 SEP 1799   St George Hanover Sq, Westminster, London   Father:  GEORGE TODD  Mother:  MARY

The 1841 census shows his age as 40 but ages were rounded down to the nearest 5yrs in 1841 so he could have been between 40-44

The 1851 census shows him as 51 although he is indexed as b 1895.  His birthplace on the 1851 is shown as Chelsea

There are a number of George Todd entries in London on the IGI who were old enough to be his father, but that pre-supposes that George Todd was born in London rather than elsewhere

 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 10 February 11 19:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi Carole thank you for that, my main mystery is where they came from. I even researched the name Griffith which seemed a little unusual to me and came up with Wales as a possible?

I would have thought that by now a full family tree would have been undertaken, the one I have from family only has Griffth Todd as Chelsea the earlier Generations seemed to have met the mists of time, unusual for a family of such standing. ???
 I have checked all the family trees that I have on file for Todd's and I have close to a hundred, (Durham Based) no mention in any in them?
Neil
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Offline Valda

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Re: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 10 February 11 21:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi


1851 census HO107 176 folio 514
3 Free School Lane St Edward, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
Charles Todd abt 1827  Astronomer at Cambridge Observatory Islington

Charles birth was registered with Dr William's Library - so the family were non-conformist

http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/


The singing line: tracking the Australian adventures of my intrepid Victorian ancestors by Alice Thomson

'Todd was born on 7th July 1826 in Islington, the second son of a Welshman named Griffith Todd and his wife Mary Parker. Griffith was a melancholy figure who despite being a Dissenter drank to forget his problems.....'  

which according to the census (1851 - 1871) is not accurate as far as the actual birthplace of Griffith is concerned.


Griffith's second marriage confirms his father's name as George

5 July 1863 St John at Hackney
Griffith Todd Full Age Widower Accountant Paradise Place George Todd Stockbroker
Maria Stebbins Full Age Spinster Paradise Place Charles Stebbins Dyer
Maria Stebbins made her mark
Witnesses Mary Stebbings and Esau Stebbings his mark


If you have the dates 1760-1825 for George Todd then you must know at least where he died to know his age at burial and therefore his approximate birth year?
If he was a broker there are records for London brokers. However Griffith's brother Richard was a tailor (married Louisa Parker at the same church as brother Griffith, who was a witness to his marriage) which makes it a little less likely their father was a stockbroker, unless he was a much less successful broker.

Not sure what you mean for a family of such standing? Certainly Charles' family onwards. There as yet doesn't seem sufficient evidence to be sure Griffith's background was necessarily of 'such standing'.
Knights are generally armigerous (bearing a coat of arms). One source states in 1893 Charles Todd became a made K.C.M.G (order of St Michael and St George). In which case you might expect that the College of Arrms might have researched his family tree at the time.

http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 10 February 11 23:39 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Valda, I have made application to the College of Arms to see if they have a tree on file and if so what Arms if any he (Charles) held.

Interesting line about Welsh background although incorrect with Griffith as born Chelsea, his background family may have had origins there as with the use of the name. There is an earlier reference to another Griffith (not a great choice of names it appears Griffith means murderer) a Great Uncle to Charles 1826. Pity no one has seemingly been able to achieve a known Tree. My reference to a family of some standing referred to his Knighthood not his background family, as we know all families have some skeletons awaiting release. Interesting family none the less with Griffith enjoying one too many and apparently leaving his wife and moving in with another (Maria) some years before a formal marriage on the death of his former wife in 1863.
Non conformist refers to? Excuse my total ignorance. Does this mean not of the Church of England? ::)
Regards
Neil
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Offline Valda

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Re: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 11 February 11 08:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi

After the Act of Uniformity 1662 in England a Nonconformist was anyone who was a not an Anglican, a member of the Church of England. In the Todd family's case possibly Congregationalists.

The use of Griffith may come from a surname. My book of names says it means 'strong, poweful. chief, fighter'.

If Griffith Henry Todd was connected it gives you his parents.

2nd August 1837  St Peter Walworth Southwark Surrey
Griffith Henry Todd aged 64, Peckham

24th October 1801 St Martin in the Fields Westminster
Griffith Henry Todd   
Sarah Williams
by licence

GRIFFITH HENRY TODD   
Christening:  28 FEB 1773   Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster, London
Father:  HENRY TODD 
Mother:  MARY 


There is also evidence that Griffith Todd's mother's surname was Strover.

Chancery (The National Archives)

C 13/411/13 [W1838 S44]. Strover v Todd. Two bills and answer. Plaintiffs: John Strover and wife. Defendants: Griffith Todd. XP 1839
C 13/412/10 [W1838 S44]. Strover v Todd. Answer. Plaintiffs: John Strover and wife. Defendants: Griffith Todd 1839

Marriage George Todd and Mary Strover 1791 Christchurch Blackfriars, bachelor and spinster.



Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Peter Bishop

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Re: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 11 February 11 14:45 GMT (UK) »
The Todd family can be traced back to the early 1700s (Charle's great grandfather was Henry) in London.  The Griffith is though to have come from a Welsh link to the Williams of Penryn, Caernavonshire.  The family is well researched due to the work of Erol Morgan, now sadly deceased.

Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 11 February 11 19:05 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat Peter and thank you, I have what this Todd family have in their family tree. Which has plenty on the family going back to Charles's Father born Chelsea, it contains his siblings and his two marriages. It has his Grandfather and his siblings with little information other than approximate birth date, one John went to Australia and then no record. It has Mary Strover wife of George and her Father "Thomas"?? No record of his wife.
It has approximate Birth year dates for his GGrandfather Henry and Wife Frances Williams and no more.

Also a big thank you to Valda the legal wrangle seems unusual between One of the Griffith Todd's and John Strover & Wife who dont appear on the tree?? The tree has parents of Mary Strover down as Thomas. John was Possibly a brother to Mary. The Griffith you have as born 1773 was Charles's Great uncle, brother to George b1760.
 The two churches you mentioned Valda, St Martins in the Field and Christchurch Blackfriars would these have been Non - Conformist churches?

Who is Erol Morgan please Peter and where might I find his research?
Unfortunately still dont know where they came from, but beginning to look like Wales? Again Thanks ;)
Neil
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Offline Valda

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Re: Knighted by Queen Victoria! But where did his family come from?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 11 February 11 19:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi


St Martin in the Fields and Christchurch Blackfriars were both Anglican churches. Between 1754 and 1st July 1837 it was illegal for non-conformists except Quakers (and Jews) to marry in their own churches they had to marry in Anglican churches.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk