Author Topic: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1  (Read 16883 times)

Offline HarrysGirl2

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Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« on: Sunday 13 February 11 21:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi my grandfather was in the Liverpool Kings Regiment during WW1.  No photo has survived of my grandfather but I have found his service card. This tells me he was in France, with details below.  Can anyone help with this.  It would be a long shot.  But I'm wondering if anyone has any photos of this regiment ? 

I don't know what my grandfather looked like as he died in 1924 from a heart condition, which was accelerated after being gassed in the trenches. But I might be able to see a resemblance in him to one of his 5 young children he left behind.

William H. Welsby

Date of entry 1-5-1915. 

Liverpool R Pte. 10912
Lab Corps. Pte. 410298

Next to Victory- Under Roll it says: LC/101 B148. Page 15010  (Edited)
Next to British - 'do'   Page 'do'
Under Medals it says:  Star. 15.  LC/ 8c Page W/100/3

Theatre of War:  (1) France

Under Remarks:  Class Z.   9-4-19.



Thank you

HG2

Moderator comment: Image removed.  Only small portions of the image may be posted for help with handwriting.
Freeman Freedman Friedman.
Cohen
Rosenburg
From Leeds, Ireland, Liverpool & Lithuania

Welsby
From Lancashire and London.

Offline emmsthheight

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Re: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« Reply #1 on: Monday 14 February 11 13:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Have you tried local papers?  Many showed photo's of men killed in action  - often in batches.

There are some Liverpool ones on the Gale 19C Newspapers site available free with library card sign in on your own computer in manmy areas.

Best wishes

Emms :)

PS I'll try and have a look when I come in. 
Also, have ypou tried regimental magazines?  Good luck!
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Offline ainslie

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Re: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« Reply #2 on: Monday 14 February 11 16:04 GMT (UK) »
The King's Liverpool Regiment had nearly 50 battalions in WW1 but fortunately not all of them served in France & Flanders.
His date of arrival overseas may be a clue, if he was part of a unit, but he may have been part of a draft of reinforcements.
The nearest arrival date I can find for a unit is the 1/8th (Irish) Battalion of the King's who arrived in Boulogne on 3 May 1915.  They were Territorials, but not all were Irish!
Someone with knowledge of numbering may be able to offer more.

The medal index card you quote shows the date of his entry into the war zone: 1st May, then his number in the King's Regiment, and later in the Labour Corps.  This transfer often meant that  a soldier had become unfit for front-line duties in the infantry from wounds or sickness.  His rank was Private in both.
He was entitled to the usual three campaign medals - Victory [not Victoria], 1915 Star and British War Medal.  If you have them the name, rank and number should be stamped in the rim.  The other mumbo-jumbo is a reference to the Medal Rolls which are held at the National Archives at Kew.  Sometime they will show more details, including a battalion number, but not always.  They are not available online.
Class Z was the part of the Army Reserve to which he was allocated when demobilised.
Official photos of individual soldiers are very rare,  and private ones are usually found among family papers, taken when about to leave for the front.  Sometimes they appeared in local papers, especially in the earlier part of the war.
The 19th century newspapers online mostly go only to 1900, so not much help here.

A


Offline HarrysGirl2

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Re: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« Reply #3 on: Monday 14 February 11 16:12 GMT (UK) »
The King's Liverpool Regiment had nearly 50 battalions in WW1 but fortunately not all of them served in France & Flanders.
His date of arrival overseas may be a clue, if he was part of a unit, but he may have been part of a draft of reinforcements.
The nearest arrival date I can find for a unit is the 1/8th (Irish) Battalion of the King's who arrived in Boulogne on 3 May 1915.  They were Territorials, but not all were Irish!
Someone with knowledge of numbering may be able to offer more.

The medal index card you quote shows the date of his entry into the war zone: 1st May, then his number in the King's Regiment, and later in the Labour Corps.  This transfer often meant that  a soldier had become unfit for front-line duties in the infantry from wounds or sickness.  His rank was Private in both.
He was entitled to the usual three campaign medals - Victory [not Victoria], 1915 Star and British War Medal.  If you have them the name, rank and number should be stamped in the rim.  The other mumbo-jumbo is a reference to the Medal Rolls which are held at the National Archives at Kew.  Sometime they will show more details, including a battalion number, but not always.  They are not available online.
Class Z was the part of the Army Reserve to which he was allocated when demobilised.
Official photos of individual soldiers are very rare,  and private ones are usually found among family papers, taken when about to leave for the front.  Sometimes they appeared in local papers, especially in the earlier part of the war.
The 19th century newspapers online mostly go only to 1900, so not much help here.

A




Thank you, I really appreciate this information.  Would it be worth getting his medals for more information ?

I would love to find a photo of him...  only his handwriting has survived.  I also have his handwriting on a card, which was from the wreath or his 4 year-old daughter who died in a few years before the 1st WW began.  So I don't want to leave a stone unturned.

HG2
Freeman Freedman Friedman.
Cohen
Rosenburg
From Leeds, Ireland, Liverpool & Lithuania

Welsby
From Lancashire and London.


Offline HarrysGirl2

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Re: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« Reply #4 on: Monday 14 February 11 16:33 GMT (UK) »
Oh dear, I made a mess of this thread as I duplicated it & now half my messages & replies have gone.  Sorry folks, it's my fault not the mods.  I'll put the postcard back, so people know what this thread is about & I apologise if other members replies have been lost.




To recap, in brief, what I'm after is a long shot, but no photograph of my grandfather has survived, only his handwriting on this Christmas card from France in 1915.  So, I'm hoping somebody just might have a photo of the 4th Battalion King's Regiment.  Or I might find an old newspaper photo.  He was not killed in action, he was gassed in the trenches & died in January 1924 age 44. Cause of death was:   "Myocardial degeneration accelerated from being gassed in the late war"

Really appreciate the help & advice on this thread, thank you

HG2

PS.  I have no idea what my grandfather looked like, but I'm hoping to identify him, by a resemblance to one of his children who grew up in the old court slums of Comus St, in Liverpool
Freeman Freedman Friedman.
Cohen
Rosenburg
From Leeds, Ireland, Liverpool & Lithuania

Welsby
From Lancashire and London.

Offline HarrysGirl2

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Re: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« Reply #5 on: Monday 14 February 11 16:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Have you tried local papers?  Many showed photo's of men killed in action  - often in batches.

There are some Liverpool ones on the Gale 19C Newspapers site available free with library card sign in on your own computer in manmy areas.

Best wishes

Emms :)

PS I'll try and have a look when I come in. 
Also, have ypou tried regimental magazines?  Good luck!

There is plenty of info for soldiers killed in action, but nothing on the soldiers who were just wounded or not wounded.  I'l look at this Gale website - thanks for this Emms

HG2
Freeman Freedman Friedman.
Cohen
Rosenburg
From Leeds, Ireland, Liverpool & Lithuania

Welsby
From Lancashire and London.

Offline ainslie

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Re: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« Reply #6 on: Monday 14 February 11 17:31 GMT (UK) »
Ah, now we have the battalion, we can say that they went to France in 1915, arriving at Le Havre on 6 March, so your g/father must have followed after the main battalion's crossing.  They were part of Sirhind Brigade in the Lahore Division, [mostly Indian Army] based at Robecq until 10 Nov 1915 when they joined 137 brigade in 46th Division. In December 1915 thhey were part of 2nd Division, and in Feb 1916 33rd Division.  At the Armistice they were at Sassegnies in France, but  at some stage his progress will have been interrupted by the transfer to the Labour Corps.


This site will give you some idea of the structure of the army: division, brigade and battalion:
http://www.1914-1918.net/

The Christmas card is a great example and you must treasure it.
A

A

Offline HarrysGirl2

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Re: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« Reply #7 on: Monday 14 February 11 17:34 GMT (UK) »
Ah, now we have the battalion, we can say that they went to France in 1915, arriving at Le Havre on 6 March, so your g/father must have followed after the main battalion's crossing.  They were part of Sirhind Brigade in the Lahore Division, [mostly Indian Army] based at Robecq until 10 Nov 1915 when they joined 137 brigade in 46th Division. In December 1915 thhey were part of 2nd Division, and in Feb 1916 33rd Division.  At the Armistice they were at Sassegnies in France, but  at some stage his progress will have been interrupted by the transfer to the Labour Corps.


This site will give you some idea of the structure of the army: division, brigade and battalion:
http://www.1914-1918.net/

The Christmas card is a great example and you must treasure it.
A

A

Oh...  thank you so much for this.  Yes, the Christmas card is treasured.

PS. He could have been transferred to the labour corps after he was gassed, maybe he was still fit to serve, but the effects of the gas caused undetected problems that later effected his heart & killed him.
Freeman Freedman Friedman.
Cohen
Rosenburg
From Leeds, Ireland, Liverpool & Lithuania

Welsby
From Lancashire and London.

Offline phillomax

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Re: Liverpool Kings Regiment Photos WW1
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 11 March 12 08:27 GMT (UK) »
Sorry can't help with any photos but my grt grandfather (John Gilleeney) also served in the Kings Liverpool Regiment (4th Extra Reserve) and has a similar number to your grandfather (11882). He was also injured and transferred to the Labour Corps and again has a similar number (413665). He served in the Labour Corps until given an Honourable Discharge on the 6th March 1919.

I would imagine that your grandfather would have served in the Boer War prior to WW1 and that was why he was in the Extra Reserve regiment.

Regards, Phil
Gilleeney, Lomax, Regan, Wilks, WW1, 4th Bn Kings Liverpool Regiment, 2nd Boer War.