Author Topic: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley  (Read 13425 times)

Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 17 February 11 09:22 GMT (UK) »
Morning, Bram...

Yes, both z and I did find that one for you. Check the earlier posts on Page 1 of this thread.  ;)

However, still no sign of Ann, other than z's possibilities.

Barbara
Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex

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Offline Bram Taylor

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 17 February 11 09:56 GMT (UK) »
Scriv2, If as we suspect there is a death of Elizabeth bailey in March 1839, and Catherine is shown as Thomas's wife in 1841, then I should be able to obtain a marriage certificate for the Marriage of Thomas to Catherine between March 1839 and whenever in 1841? Just need to see if that is out there someplace? Just a thought and by the way, of you and Z did find that 1841 reference previously, a old brain, sorry??

Bram

Taylor, Baker, Milns, Bayley, Bailey, Evers, Shropshire.
Sewell, Prestidge, Northamptonshire.
Simpson, Mitchell, Edmondson, Slater, Abbott, West Riding Yorkshire.
Zelley, Eggleton, White, Lovell, Purchase, Dorset.
Neech, Suffolk, Norfolk.
Singleton, Surrey,
Eggleton, Buckingham/Surrey

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Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 17 February 11 11:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bram

Yes you would be able to obtain a certificate if we could find a Thomas- Catherine marriage, but so far, no luck on that one yet.

They might not have married of course. I understand that they often didn't make it official for second marriages, for one thing on account of the cost.

My imagination has been running away with me on Amos Evers though...here goes, but remember I am being fanciful...

Could the father's name on the cert read Amos  Evens/Evans?The handwriting can often confuse and an 'n' can resemble an 'r'?... Just a thought.

Now, if we follow Amos Evans...

There is an Amos bapt 1826 in Berkshire, Thatcham 11 JUN 1826 
Father:     Amos Evans    Family
Mother:     Sarah    

In the 1841 census in June, he is 15 and at home, but in 1861 he is 34 and visiting Thomas J and Elizabeth Powell in St Julian's in Shrewsbury. He is entered as married, but wife not there with him.  He is a Railway Contractor.
RG9/1871/33 p 6

 There is a marriage for him in 1860 Marriages Jun 1860   (>99%), but there is a female spouse missing off the page - but I think it should be Harriett SMITH, transcribed as Shrewsbury 6a 255 .

EVANS    Amos        Shrewsbury    6a   1255    
EVANS    Edward         Shrewsbury    6a   1255    
FARR    Hannah         Shrewsbury    6a   1255

Now, thinking back to the Ann Bailey we found in 1841 living in the same household as an ag lab, Richard Powell aged 15 or 18, if you look at the original.

Now, could there be a link between the Evans and Powells and could Amos be visiting the Powells later that year and being the same age as Richard, meet our Anne?

She is obviously several years older than him of course, which could rule the scenario right out or could explain why it never was regularised? Maybe both parties fibbed about their ages??

Amos also has a younger brother called Alfred.. maybe your Alfred was named after him,maybe?

Not sure how the birth of John/Joseph Bailey fits into all this, but maybe his birth certificate would reveal the father - unless all you get is a ' - ' for father's name. However that could be quite costly ordering from abroad.

But remember, this is just me thinking very much outside the box.

And 73 is not old!

Barbara

Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex

Offline Ruskie

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 17 February 11 12:51 GMT (UK) »
I like your thinking Barbara.  ;D

I suppose it depends on whether the name on the certificate is Evers or Evans. Of course it is possible that Ann told Alfred his father was Amos Evans and he thought she said Evers, as it's a name that appears in the Shropshire area.

Amos Evers doesn't seem to exist on the 1841 census. (I haven't checked the 51 or later). So using a process of elimination

Are those Powells related to each other?

Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 17 February 11 13:07 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Ruskie - I'm afraid I do get carried away though.

I don't know if those Powells are related yet. I am looking, but not found anything yet. There are so many in different Powells and areas of Shropshire that I am not sure if I am out of area or not. The Thomas J Powell whom Amos was visiting in 1861 was born in Wellington as per the census and his wife Elizabeth in Wroxeter, Shropshire. Richard Powell in 1841 with Ann was resident in Baschurch, Ellesmere?

Hey, but I have just found a Thomas and Catharine marriage in Newport, but it needs following up to verify as it is of:-

Thomas Bealey and Catharine Aspery on 4 Aug 1834 Batch MO34741

If you call up the batch on the old familysearch site, the order puts Bealey firmly amongst the Baileys and variations of spelling.

Of course, this would mean that the death of Elizabeth in 1839 would not be ours.

Again, just a theory, Bram and a caveat that there is another Thomas Bayley and wife Catharine around in the 1841 census in Shropshire in the St Julian area, born 1816.
Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex

Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 17 February 11 14:15 GMT (UK) »
Another supporting theory for Ann in 1841  as a servant in the miller Fletcher household alongside ag lab Richard Powell  is that there is a Fletcher family living next door to Ann and George Taylor  in 1861.

Not firm evidence I know, but circumstantial in that the families are known to each other.

I must go now as my head is swimming. Do excuse me if I have gone on too much.

Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex

Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 17 February 11 17:01 GMT (UK) »
Important fact:-

Looks like the death of Elizabeth Bailey in 1839 is not the wife of Thomas, but is the young  daughter of Thomas Bailey and  Catharine/Katharine.

From IGI:

Elizabeth Bailey, daughter of Thomas Bailey and Katherine, baptised 24 Mar 1836, Longford by Newport, Shropshire.

Died 22 Jan 1839
 
So this rules out this as our Elizabeth's death in 1839.

Question : is this our Thomas and Catherine?

I will hazard a guess and say yes. The other Thomas and Catharine are producing quite rapidly during these years over in St Julians and if you look at familysearch, their births clash with the birth and death of the above child.

As to the marriage in 1834 in Newport, is it safe to think that our couple would marry there and the other Thomas and Catharine, based in St Julians, would probably have married in Shrewsbury? Or not?

What say you? Bram? z ? Ruskie?

Cheers
B

Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex

Offline Bram Taylor

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #34 on: Friday 18 February 11 05:55 GMT (UK) »
Hello to all from Australia
I have just printed out all the research done thus far by all you kind people , 13 A4 pages worth so first of all my sincere thanks and gratitude. I wish my mind was as agile and I had the recall of a few years back, it  would make life at the moment much easier!! I ahve posted an article on the  Travelling people Board as suggested by Ruskie and will have to see what comes of that?
I have also just posted a lengthy article on this RootsChat site, and tried to attach a copy of Alfreds birth and marriage certificates, unfortunately I did not read the small print and as a result they were too large and I lost the entire posting!!!! Pays to read the instructions first!!
I will have my dinner and then come back and do it all over again, without the attachments!
Cheers,

Bram
Taylor, Baker, Milns, Bayley, Bailey, Evers, Shropshire.
Sewell, Prestidge, Northamptonshire.
Simpson, Mitchell, Edmondson, Slater, Abbott, West Riding Yorkshire.
Zelley, Eggleton, White, Lovell, Purchase, Dorset.
Neech, Suffolk, Norfolk.
Singleton, Surrey,
Eggleton, Buckingham/Surrey

Offline Bram Taylor

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #35 on: Friday 18 February 11 09:07 GMT (UK) »
G'day to all from Australia
I am in the process of trying to determine which bits of information we have a general consensus on?

The first and most obvious one is that of the Bailey Household in 1841 is ours without a doubt and without Ann!

The second point I am a bit confused about as Z refered to an 1841 finding of an Ann Bailey in YEATON and Barbera followed up with YEADON but as YEATON appears to be in Shrawardine it may be correct, to an Aussie anyway?? Do we now think that that particular census record is the right Ann as a servant living with a Richard Powell in another room?

Thomas Bailey baptised 17 November 1785, Liileshall, parents Thomas and Sarah, if so they would be my G G G G grandparents.

Lastly, I think, the Baptiism of Elizabeth Bailey, 24th of March 1836, Parents Thomas and Catherine, it leaves a gap of 12 years between Thomas junior and this one but Catherine was still only about 39 so of child bearing age?

Anything I missed that is a strong contender?
I have looked at the certificate of Alfreds marriage and would be positive it is EVERS as there are other uses of the S elsewhere on the document.
On the Birth certificate there is only a strange symbol in the 'Father' Column and the same symbol in the 'Occupation' column, looks like a lower case Q coupled to a lower case P like this qp in a large flowery handwriting. I guess it must mean something to those in the know?
Am I on the right track and did I miss anything that is believed to be a sure bet?
Cheers to all wherever you all are,
Bram

Taylor, Baker, Milns, Bayley, Bailey, Evers, Shropshire.
Sewell, Prestidge, Northamptonshire.
Simpson, Mitchell, Edmondson, Slater, Abbott, West Riding Yorkshire.
Zelley, Eggleton, White, Lovell, Purchase, Dorset.
Neech, Suffolk, Norfolk.
Singleton, Surrey,
Eggleton, Buckingham/Surrey