Author Topic: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley  (Read 16327 times)

Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #45 on: Saturday 19 February 11 09:07 GMT (UK) »
Here we are... looks like this is Ann's brother, Joseph. Makes more sense as a witness to their wedding.

Joseph Bayley, son of Thomas Bayley and Elizabeth, christened 26 Jan 1817, Lilleshall, Shropshire.

Barbara
Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex

Offline Bram Taylor

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #46 on: Saturday 19 February 11 10:07 GMT (UK) »
Fantastic!
Well done Barbara, that is fantastic and he is certainly one who would be a witness to her wedding as you suggest, every day something new seems to turn up? I am so frustrated that I am not able to participate at the moment in the on line searches as I am too caught up with doctors and such, perhaps sooner rather than later as I will now have to track this Joseph as well. I want now to get those one or two certificates, birth and marriage for the younger John/Joseph once I can be sure which to ask for. I am hoping that they may be revealing in regards to the status of 'Father' on the both of them and perhaps occupation if I could be that lucky? You have all been such a wonderful help to me I now look forward to tomorrow a lot more than of late. I will put this new Joseph into my family tree in case I wake in the morning and it was only a dream!!!! 9:45 pm now so time once again for a Milo and some bed, what a eventful day!
Kind regards,
Bram
Taylor, Baker, Milns, Bayley, Bailey, Evers, Shropshire.
Sewell, Prestidge, Northamptonshire.
Simpson, Mitchell, Edmondson, Slater, Abbott, West Riding Yorkshire.
Zelley, Eggleton, White, Lovell, Purchase, Dorset.
Neech, Suffolk, Norfolk.
Singleton, Surrey,
Eggleton, Buckingham/Surrey

Offline Bram Taylor

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #47 on: Saturday 19 February 11 10:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Barbara
AS I was just turning this computer off, I saw that the mother of Joseph was Elizabeth? Am I to believe that we are still of the opinion that Elizabeth is implicated as well as Catherine? I thought we had rulled that option out or am I still catching up?
Catch you in the morning, stay safe?
Bram
Taylor, Baker, Milns, Bayley, Bailey, Evers, Shropshire.
Sewell, Prestidge, Northamptonshire.
Simpson, Mitchell, Edmondson, Slater, Abbott, West Riding Yorkshire.
Zelley, Eggleton, White, Lovell, Purchase, Dorset.
Neech, Suffolk, Norfolk.
Singleton, Surrey,
Eggleton, Buckingham/Surrey

Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #48 on: Saturday 19 February 11 11:46 GMT (UK) »
No Bram... we are thinking Thomas was first married to Elizabeth and had Thomas, Anne and Joseph. ;)

We assume she died and Catherine was his second wife/partner.

Barbara

Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex


Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #49 on: Saturday 19 February 11 18:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bram

Now, I have another intriguing piece of the puzzle.

Accepting that Joseph is another sibling of Anne - and son of Thomas and Elizabeth - I have found a likely Joseph in 1851 and 1861.

In 1851 he is a groom born abt 1817 in Lilleshall  residing in Newport with wife Mary A born abt 1821 in not sure whether Gnosall or Gornall, Staffs  and daughter Mary A of 11 months born Newport.

In 1861 they are in Tipton, Dudley, Staffs. Joseph is entered as born abt 1818 Lilleshall and wife Mary A born Gornall/Gnosall, Staffs about 1822 with children Mary A aged 10 and William J aged 10 months. Joseph is a labourer.

Now, there is a marriage in Dec Q 1844 in Newport  where Mary Ann Asprey and a Joseph Bailey are on the same page : ref Vol 18 Page 191

Remember I am thinking that Catherine Asprey could be Thomas's second wife, married in 1834???

Interesting eh?

Barbara

PS There is also birth of a Benjamin Bailey to Thomas and Elizabeth chr 28 Dec 1823 but dying 29 Oct 1828

and a William chr May 1827, Lilleshall.
Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex

Offline Bram Taylor

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #50 on: Sunday 20 February 11 01:04 GMT (UK) »
Good Morning from Australia
Thanks for the additional info Barbara and I hope your poor toe is on the mend? bit of rain down here in OZ and an enorous spider and web across the garden!
Well Barbera, I have faith in your delvings and revelations so far and I have organised my family tree to incorporate the five known and itemised children accredited to Elizabeth and Thomas. I have now sent for the marriage certificate of Joseph Bailey and Mary Ann Asprey and that should throw a bit of light on the family structure, Joseph's father and that of Mary Ann Asprey which could lead to an involvement with Catherine Asprey, possibly Joseph's step mother? Is that the way you see it Barbera? Also The witnesses are always interesting as was the case with the marriage of Ann and George Taylor?
Hope I have not got my wires crossed and I hope this certificate gets here fairly soon?
Bye for now,
Bram
Taylor, Baker, Milns, Bayley, Bailey, Evers, Shropshire.
Sewell, Prestidge, Northamptonshire.
Simpson, Mitchell, Edmondson, Slater, Abbott, West Riding Yorkshire.
Zelley, Eggleton, White, Lovell, Purchase, Dorset.
Neech, Suffolk, Norfolk.
Singleton, Surrey,
Eggleton, Buckingham/Surrey

Offline Bram Taylor

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #51 on: Sunday 20 February 11 02:18 GMT (UK) »
Next Chapter:
Hi Barbara and Z
I was just perusing and reflecting on the two Baptisms that you sent me, those of Alfred and John Bailey and thinking that while I have the Birth Certificate of Alfred Bailey, my direct ancestor, I don't have that of John Bailey who was Christened on 8 September 1844.
I have searched FreeBMD and found that there are three of them in Newport in 1844; in the March Quarter, in the June Quarter and lastly in the September Quarter.
As Alfred was born 23 February 1842 and was Baptised on 11th of March it would seem that Ann did not want to wait too long before Baptising her offspring?
John was baptised 8 September so when would be a likely  birth date out of those presented above? I think that the September one would be out of the question it would be almost impossible to do? That leaves either March or June and I think March is too big a gap between birth and baptism for our Ann leaving June as best fit?
I think I will send for that one as well as the one mentioned previously, (marriage of Joseph and Mary Ann Asprey) and hope it is our Ann? Just to unbalance my new found confidence in these results, are we still of the opinion that John Bailey is Joseph Bailey and Joseph is John? I feel very much inclined to send for one of these birth registrations and see what it throws up, thanks too Barbara for the 1851 and 61 census extracts on John and family, if you have time and could be so kind, perhaps you can let me have those for my records, gee i'm missing my Ancestry sources! I had them until just this year, I never would have got this sorted out without the help of you kind people. Maybe with the birth certificate Amos might get a mention or who knows??
I will wait for your reply before I send for this one to confirm my sometimes doubtful logic?
Kind regards to all,
Bram
Taylor, Baker, Milns, Bayley, Bailey, Evers, Shropshire.
Sewell, Prestidge, Northamptonshire.
Simpson, Mitchell, Edmondson, Slater, Abbott, West Riding Yorkshire.
Zelley, Eggleton, White, Lovell, Purchase, Dorset.
Neech, Suffolk, Norfolk.
Singleton, Surrey,
Eggleton, Buckingham/Surrey

Offline z

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #52 on: Sunday 20 February 11 08:32 GMT (UK) »
Morning Bram and Barbara

Just thinking Bram before you order that birth certificate for John Bailey it might be worth your while giving the Local Registration Office a quick call to see whether they will help you identify the correct entry,  the office which would cover Longford I believe is Telford and Wrekin Register Office - 01952 382444.

To add, and this may not have any relevance to your Bayley family but thought it worth a mention, with the name John being used in the family,  I came across in the National Archives a will of a John Bayley Farmer of Lilleshall Date April 18th 1798, who knows might be worth a look?

Nice work Barbara ;D

All the best

z :)


Offline scriv2

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Re: 1841 Census, Lilleshall, Shropshire for Ann(e) Bailey/Bayley
« Reply #53 on: Sunday 20 February 11 09:06 GMT (UK) »
Morning Bram and z

On your logic of how long Anne waits to baptise her chidren, I would actually think that the September Quarter birth is the best fit as it covers registrations in the months of July, August and September. so Ann would have had plenty of time to get a baptism arranged without delay.

However,we are just guessing and I would agree with z it would be best to check out before ordering.

Very interesting re the will, z!!

Barbara

Names :Scriven, Parlour, Vaughan, Pember,Price, Thompson, Rennie/Roney, Hannon,Taylor,Pitt,Brice

Places: Alveley, Bewdley, Rock, Dukinfield, Manchester,Limerick, Bishopstone/Dilwyn, Swarraton,Alverstoke, Middlesex