Author Topic: Kinmel camp  (Read 9059 times)

Offline valerie1

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Kinmel camp
« on: Sunday 27 February 11 18:37 GMT (UK) »
Is there any person on this list who has a good knowledge of Kinmel camp,  was it still open in 1919 and who would have been there as I belive the Canadians had gone home ?

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Offline simon family tree

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Re: Kinmel camp
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 27 February 11 18:48 GMT (UK) »
Kinmel Military Camp was a huge facility constructed during the First World War. It was served by the Kinmel Camp Railway (nprn 34761) from Foryd Junction on the North Wales main coast line from 1915. The Camp is infamous for the riot of homesick Canadian troops in 1919 awaiting de-mobilisation after World War

 i have found tis hope it helps,
The Camp was built in 1914 as a training camp for the North Wales battalions raised as the Kitchener army. It was a basic, no frills camp. By 1919, the camp became a transit camp for the huge amounts of soldiers leaving France, and shipping from Liverpool to the four corners of the world. In 1919, it was filthy, over crowded, had a lack of bedding, soldiers slept on damp earth, food was described as pig swill, and the troops were continually under military order, drilling, parades, forced marches etc despite the majority of them being 'duration' men - ie soldiers for the duration of the war. Many resented the fact that newly arrived troops were shipped home earlier, there was also resentment that they had not been given a victory parade, etc.

There was also a feeling that the gloomy economic prospects for the returning Canadians was a factor in deliberately keeping them here. The Canadian war debt was £400 million, and severe unemployment was rife in Canada. Foreseeing riots in Canada on their return, one school of thought believes that the men were kept here so that they could erupt in dissatisfaction here in Wales, and not in Canada!

"Strikes and unrest in Canada were dealt with by troops, and there were numerous occasions when troops fraternised with striking workers in Toronto. Canada also began to deport aliens - mainly thousands of Russian immigrants, to provide work for native Canadians. News of this ill treatment of aliens filtered back to Kinmel, a large number of the Canadian soldiers there being 'aliens' themselves.

"This also gave the authorities an excuse to blame 'Russian Communists' for the aggravation. It's no coincidence that William Tarasevitch was villified as a 'leader of the mutineers' and bayonetted. Another myth is that the local tradesmen were profiteers. This is a falsehood. Evidence by numerous Canadian soldiers showed that there was excellent rapport between the locals and the soldiers, and many close links forged. 12 local civilians were arrested with the mutineers who had 'enjoyed' the spree and damage. No charges were brought against the locals.

"Tradesmen stores in the camp were stripped and robbed, but no injury was reported, even the wives and children living in the camp were well treated. As far as I can see, the actual events of 4-10 March 1919 are confused and deliberately clouded. On 4th March, a meeting was called by the soldiers of Camp Montreal.

"A strike committee was formed with Tarasevitch a member. He was chosen to give the signal to begin the mutiny in which they aimed to takeover all 21 camps in Kinmel, involving 20,000 men.

"On 7th March, The Times ran an article giving the official view of what happened. This article was wrong, and gave the government's spin to events which deliberately clouded what actually happened. The article blamed Russian communists who led men to the officers' quarters, drank their liquor, overwhelmed the guards, took their weapons and rampaged and looted. £50,000 worth of damage was done, 12 were killed including a New Brunswick Major and VC holder, 20 others injured.

"Some rioters were arrested, but the other mutineers besieged the Guard Room, and released them. By Wednesday, the riot was over and The Times states that the rest of the men recovering from a teriffic hangover regreted their actions, and that they would be good boys from now on!

"On 9th March a Canadian Military Authority court of inquiry issued a statement:- the official view is that 5 were killed, and 21 injured. Inquests on the deceased were opened on the 7th March. No attack was made on officers, and Brigadier General M.A.Colquhoun the report author stated that he personally went amongst the men during the riots, and men put down their loot and saluted him! 50 or 60 men got out of hand, one barrack."

sorry it  abit long

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Offline valerie1

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Re: Kinmel camp
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 27 February 11 19:03 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
I asked for knowledge and wow I got it thank you.

I have a needle in a haystack and with your quote of 20,000 men think I will put Frank Taylor back in his box where he has been for many a year, he was my grandfather stationed at Kinmel Nov 1919, that's all I have nothing else, I have had a look before and have had lots of help and there was a railway man way back in my search with the same name but I dismissed  it as he was not a soldier, but know with the mention of the railways Mmm I wonder.

Thank you for your in depth reply which was really intresting and sounded horrible for the poor guys who had fought in the war and did not come home to any comfort.

Regards Val

Offline simon family tree

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Re: Kinmel camp
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 27 February 11 19:15 GMT (UK) »
hi just got to say not my findings just what i found on net ,dont what people think i nick all there hard work

Offline billramp

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Re: Kinmel camp
« Reply #4 on: Monday 28 February 11 02:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi Val
yes Kinmel was still going as a training camp up until a few years ago.  I believe the ranges may still be there.
My aunt was manageress of the NAAFI  in the fifties.
The following link gives many peoples memories of Kinmel later on when it was a training camp...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/askalocal/pages/wwii17.shtml

Bill
RAMPLING and CHANDLER London,Middlesex,Surrey.
DOWN,  HITCHCOCK, PAGE  London and Devon.
HIGGS  London and Warwickshire (Birmingham)
SAUNDERS Folkestone, Kent
JERVIS, HOLMES, DOWNS  Longton,Staffordshire
BARRINGTON London
MILES, DEAN London, Somerset
POLGREAN Cornwall

Offline JTR Rhyl

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Re: Kinmel camp
« Reply #5 on: Monday 21 May 12 10:43 BST (UK) »
In the 50s - 60s the camp was occupied with the Royal Artillery.
This was a boys troop
Also a Men's Training troop
Infact it was the start of  The Royal Artillery Junior Leaders
Also the start of the Royal Artillery display team the White Helmets started in Kinmel Camp. As shown on there site.


60s - mid 70s
Kinmel Park Camp was the home camp to The Junior Tradesman's Regiment.

We have for the past 3 years held reunions as the Bodelwyddan Castle.


For further on these bits please contact me, also if you have anything (photos or Memories) please Contact me.

The camp now is a Cadet Camp with a 30meter range and Assult Course.

Offline daviesmcintosh

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Re: Kinmel camp
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 18 March 15 13:57 GMT (UK) »
My Nan Lilian Bates was in the Naffi at Kinmel in the late 40's I believe that is where her and my Grandfather Roger Millard met.
Davies,Morgan,Bates,Millard,Drury,Briscoe,Russell,Matthews,Carleton,Carr.

Offline ScouseBoy

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Re: Kinmel camp
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 16 August 15 19:08 BST (UK) »
I also think that Kinmel Camp was used as an Internment Camp  to house Southern Irish   "political" prisoners  maybe in the early 1920s
Nursall   ~    Buckinghamshire
Avies ~   Norwich

Offline Tryweryn

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Re: Kinmel camp
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 18 April 17 00:49 BST (UK) »
I also think that Kinmel Camp was used as an Internment Camp  to house Southern Irish   "political" prisoners  maybe in the early 1920s
Are you thinking of Frongoch, Bala the Irish camp?