Elsie HARROP (nee WILLIAMS) b. abt 1893 d. 1932

[RonOne]

Both of William Henry and Elsie Harrop's children you mentioned in Post#1 were registered in the Chorlton/Manchester South registration district.

Manchester South was created in 1925 out of the Chorlton district.

[RonOne]

Southern Cemetery - Section: W Church of England - Grave: 2091
Pos   -      Name       -   Burial Date
 1  -  Elizabeth Harrop - 11/02/1932
 2  -  Emily Harrop      - 19/10/1935
 3  -  Elsie Harrop     - 14/07/1936

Deaths Mar 1932
Harrop Elizabeth - Aged 60 - Manchester S. 8d 341
(Possibly William Henry Harrop's mother - Elizabeth (nee Symms) b.circa 1872)

Deaths Dec 1935
Harrop Emily - Aged 26 - Manchester S. 8d 22
(Possibly William Henry Harrop's sister b.1909)

[RonOne]

Births Mar 1872
Symms Elizabeth - Chester 8a 382

[RonOne]

I believe her parents were Alfred and Caroline WILLIAMS

Why do you believe Elsie's mother's name was Caroline?

I can't find a marriage of an Alfred Edward Williams to a Caroline (Anyname)

[Australia Bound]

Hello there.      

Gosh you are great.

I believe her parents were Alfred and Caroline WILLIAMS

Why do you believe Elsie's mother's name was Caroline?

I can't find a marriage of an Alfred Edward Williams to a Caroline (Anyname)

The ONLY way that I believe Elsie, Alice and Mabel's parents names were Alfred and Caroline is from the death record of Alice (or Allie as she was known).

Surname    Given Names    Sex           Age    Father    Mother    Place of Birth    Registration District    Registration Number    Registration Year    
OLIVER    ALLIE MAY    Female    63    ALFRED    CAROLINE                       PERTH                1493                                   1963    

You have subsequently confirmed from the Parish record for the marriage of William Henry HARROP and Elsie WILLIAMS that Elsie's father's name was in fact Alfred Edward WILLIAMS.   Allie, although married to James John OLIVER in Perth in 1934 had no children, so the information on her death record is only as good as the person who supplied the information, which would have been her husband as her sister Mabel had passed away in 1951.  (Mabel's death record does not show the name of her mother or father).

Elsie passed away in 1932 in Ashton, Lancashire, England. 

Are you certain this is correct?  Do you have her death certificate?

As you now know that Elsie Williams was born circa 1898 there is a death reg:

Deaths Sep 1936
Harrop Elsie - Aged 38 - Manchester S. 8d 194

which fits her birth year.

Note: (Manchester S. = Manchester South)

I am also starting to wonder if I had the right death record originally for Elsie HARROP given the differences in the ages.  For example,
    -  on the parish record for the marriage of William Henry HARROP and Elsie WILLIAMS in 1921 it says she was 23 yrs of age.  This would have put her to be born in either 1897 or 1898.
    -  the death record I found had her age as being born earlier.

The death record you found fits in more appropriately.

So where did Alfred Edward Williams and Caroline marry (if Caroline is her correct name), and did they have other children besides the daughters (Elsie, Alice and Mabel)?  In the 1901 census Elsie would have been there and maybe Alice, but not Mabel (born after the 1901 census), although in the 1911 census they should have all been there (unless Caroline had passed away before the 1911 census)?

Once again thank you for your help - I really do appreciate it.


AB

[RonOne]

I am also starting to wonder if I had the right death record originally for Elsie HARROP

The only way to be certain is to obtain the death certificate for Elsie Harrop, which should state under Occupation (Column 5) either "Wife of William Henry Harrop" or "Widow of William Henry Harrop" (Depending on whether or not William Henry Harrop was still alive at the time of Elsie's death and also what the informant knew)

You can order England/Wales Birth, Marriage and Death certificates online from the General Register Office using the references found on FreeBMD

If you're not familiar with the type of information on England/Wales BMD certificates have a read through this - CLICK HERE

[Australia Bound]

Hi there.

Elsie's husband was alive when Elsie passed away because he remarried.


AB   

[Australia Bound]

PS. and thank you for the burial information on Elsie too.  Looks spot on.

AB 

[Australia Bound]

Also I just had another look at William and Elsie's parish marriage record, and where it says the name and occupation of the bride's father there is a line through his occupation which could imply the bride's father was deceased at the time of the marriage in 1921.   What do you think?

Also the bride's address is 25 Clopton St, is there any way of looking up records of who lived at an address in a specific year, or if 25 Clopton St was a residential address or a boarding house or something?


AB