Author Topic: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster  (Read 6372 times)

Online Kay99

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 13 September 15 18:16 BST (UK) »
I live in Herefordshire.  Can't go to the Record Office this week, but should be able to manage it next week

Kay

PS -Love your cat :)

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Offline cimbrio

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 15 September 15 11:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Kay,

If it's not too much of a bother for you, I'd be very grateful if you could look up Elizabeth's baptism in Leominster ("Outer Parish?) around the year 1780-1800 (to put it very broadly).

I know she married in Hope-under-Dinmore, Herefordshire on 26 Aug 1811, but I have not seen the original marriage entry - chances are there may be a clue as to her parentage on there?

Many thanks for your kind offering!

Cimbrio

PS: I agree my cat is to die for ;-)
Herefordshire: ALLEN (Colwall), CARTWRIGHT (Kington & Almeley), DAVIS (Colwall), EVANS (Pembridge), GODSALL (Colwall), JONES (Whitbourne), MORRIS (Kington & Kinnersley), MOUND (Wormsley), TIPPINS (Staunton-on-Arrow), RODWAY (Colwall), VICKRESS (Wellington & Hope-under-Dinmore), WATKINS (Almeley)
Shropshire: MOUND (Hope Bagot)
Worcestershire: PARKER (Kempsey)

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Online Kay99

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 15 September 15 13:27 BST (UK) »
I will have a look for both and follow any lines that I find.  Fingers crossed  :)  The 1811 marriage should say whether she was a widow or spinster at least.

Looking forward to seeing the new offices at Hereford

Kay

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 15 September 15 13:33 BST (UK) »
Thank you Kay! Fingers crossed indeed!

Best of luck,
Cimbrio
Herefordshire: ALLEN (Colwall), CARTWRIGHT (Kington & Almeley), DAVIS (Colwall), EVANS (Pembridge), GODSALL (Colwall), JONES (Whitbourne), MORRIS (Kington & Kinnersley), MOUND (Wormsley), TIPPINS (Staunton-on-Arrow), RODWAY (Colwall), VICKRESS (Wellington & Hope-under-Dinmore), WATKINS (Almeley)
Shropshire: MOUND (Hope Bagot)
Worcestershire: PARKER (Kempsey)

Online Kay99

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 24 September 15 17:34 BST (UK) »
Well had a good day at Hereford Archive and love the new building.   Apologies this is rather long winded.   

Before I went I fiddled with Gatehouse records on Family Search and Anc and noticed a tree  of  Anc had a James Gatehouse b  1811 Pembridge who married in 1837  under the name Gittoes and later becomes Gatehouse –confirmed  by both the  marriage  cert and a child’s birth cert. 

With the idea that the surname could easily be misspelt if pronounced with an accent I checked on Family Search and found an Elizabeth Gittoes bapt 1 Jun 1788  Leominster with William and Ann Giddoes  Gittoes https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1P1-GBS  which looked a possible.    I checked the Leominster records  and there was no baptism for an Elizabeth Gatehouse in the right time frame.

The marriage of Elizabeth Gatehouse to  William Vickress in 1811 was by licence – both were unmarried and signed their names with witnesses Ed  Price and Eleanor Sted?    But the best bit is that Elizabeth Gatehouse is listed as the daughter of  the Parish Clerk!!   

Working on the basis that her father could be William Gatehouse/Gittoes from the 1788 baptism in Leominster I found the burial in Hope under Dinmore of a William Gatehouse age 80 on 20 Nov 1834 – listed working as the Parish Clerk for 40  years .   I checked the Parish Book with minutes etc for 1780-1824 and on  7 Feb 1808 reference is made in a Vestry meeting -  “It is agreed that William Gittus/Gittoes shall continue to hold the office of Parish  Clerk until any just or proper cause shall be shown for removal  from said office”

Looking at past marriages in the parish between 1768-1807 they are mostly witnessed and I think written up by a William Gittus/Gittoes and in 1807 Elizabeth Gatehouse starts to witness weddings as well.

Again looking at variations of spelling – there is a possible marriage for Elizabath’s father in Hope under Dinmore as  William Gittus to Ann Watkins on 23 Dec 1787 – And most confusingly this wedding is also witnessed by another William Gittus –Presumably you can’t witness your own wedding!!! 

At this point I got rather confused and think that the William Gittus/Gatehouse who was born approx 1754 and died in 1834 was Elizabeth’s father and possibly her grandfather was also a William – who witnessed his son’s marriage in 1787 and his son William took over the Parish Council work from him?? There is a possible birth for William Jnr in 1759 in nearby Kimbolton with parents  William and Mary  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRC3-76P There is a possible burial for William Snr on 12 Jan  1804 in Hope under Dinmore and for William Jnr’s wife Ann 6 Oct 1801 at Hope under Dinmore

Sorry this is rather long and I hope it makes sense!!

Kay
 
Edit -  I did wonder if this Thomas Gatehouse, born at Hope about 1790, was  a sibling of Elizabeth's but I couldn't find a baptism  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7R7-3RD 
The Hereford Times 29 October 1864 lists his death at Bodenham on 16  Oct age 76 - after 3 years illness born with patience - Universally respected.  Worked for 50 years at Hampton Court estate -30 as a gardener.  http://www.hamptoncourt.org.uk/   Sounds a lovely man

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 26 September 15 20:55 BST (UK) »
Hi Kay,

I am still slowly digesting the mountain of information you have so kindly provided. You have helped me solve years of brickwalls :) The alternative spelling of the surname Gatehouse is a true eye-opener.

I think the Thomas Gatehouse mentioned in your edit was very possibly Elizabeth's brother, as she also lived in the grounds of Hampton Court. Would Thomas's baptism appear in Hope-under-Dinmore or Leominster?

I have gone through baptisms and marriages on FamilySearch in the hope of linking the various Gittus, Gittoes and Gatehouses there. Alas, there isn't much helpful information, but here is what I can gather from your discoveries and what FS can provide:

Elizabeth Gatehouse was baptised 1 June 1788, daughter of William Gatehosue/Gittus and wife Ann (probably the same William Gittus and Ann Watkins who married 23 Dec 1787, i.e. Ann would have been pregnant at the time).

William, church clerk, died in 1834 aged 80 so born 1754 - you mention there is a possible candidate in Kimbolton (I assume there isn't a more likely candidate in Hope-under-Dinmore) - would not the marriage certificate mention his parents' names?

Bearing in mind that William's father's name was another William Gittus is still conjecture, I find it highly coincidental that there are other Gittuses (this is becoming complicated!) in Hope. For instance:
- 19 Feb 1747, marriage between Thomas Gittus and Anne Grummy/Grumpe (she being bapt. 15 Oct 1721, daug John and Ann Grumpe). Maybe William (1754-1834) was their son?

- 14/1/1720, marriage between Edward Gittus/Gitters/Gittoes and Eleanor Croft, daughter of Humphrey and Elizabeth Croft, bapt. 9/4/1689). They had children Eleanor (1721), Elizabeth (1722) and William (1724). Maybe Thomas above was their son?

I also have a William Gatehouse b. Bodenham 1823 who marriedJane Stead and then her sister Rebecca Stead. The Steads were prominent Mormons who emigrated to Utah in the 1800's - is it possible to check on William's parentage? I think Bodenham and Hope are very close...

Maybe these are far too many questions and requests to come back with but anything than can be cleared is already a brick less in this brickwall.

Best wishes,
Cimbrio
Herefordshire: ALLEN (Colwall), CARTWRIGHT (Kington & Almeley), DAVIS (Colwall), EVANS (Pembridge), GODSALL (Colwall), JONES (Whitbourne), MORRIS (Kington & Kinnersley), MOUND (Wormsley), TIPPINS (Staunton-on-Arrow), RODWAY (Colwall), VICKRESS (Wellington & Hope-under-Dinmore), WATKINS (Almeley)
Shropshire: MOUND (Hope Bagot)
Worcestershire: PARKER (Kempsey)

Online Kay99

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 27 September 15 08:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Cimbro

Re your question about the     “William, church clerk, died in 1834 aged 80 so born 1754 - you mention there is a possible candidate in Kimbolton (I assume there isn't a more likely candidate in Hope-under-Dinmore) - would not the marriage certificate mention his parents' names?”       
His possible marriage to Ann Watkins on 23 Dec 1787 gave witnesses but no parents names.   Sadly church records rarely did pre 1837, which is why his daughter Elizabeth’s marriage was so unusual in 1811.  I didn’t see a bapt for this William in Hope.    To add slightly to the confusion I forgot to mention that there were a few William Gatehouse rather than William Gittoes witness signatures on weddings about 1808 !     

Looking through my notes  I  found a  burial for Edward Gittoes at Hope 25 Oct 1766 and Elnor??  Gittes?   21 Nov 1769    Sadly the older burials list no ages, so after marrying  in Hope and having  children  they stayed and died there.

The marriage of Thomas Gittus and Ann Gummy/Grummy in 1747 was by banns.  I found a baptism of  two possible children in Hope –
Thomas – 7 May 1769  son of William  Gitties /Gitters and Ann   
John – 1761 son of William and Ann Gittoes
I did wonder if earlier children were baptised elsewhere.   Indeed there seem to be a dearth of Gittoes/etc bmd’s other than the ones we have mentioned, although the records do rather jump about.

I didn’t see a baptism for Thomas b 1791 Hope - the possible brother of Elizabeth -    He gives his birthplace as Hope throughout the census, but it is possible he was born elsewhere and lived most  of his  life in Hope.   I found I think a marriage for him to Sarah Gatehouse at Kimbolton on 24 Nov 1819 and both were listed as of the Parish

I think that William born Bodenham 1823 could well be son of Thomas Gatehouse b1791 Hope and wife Sarah and baptised at Hope in 1824 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK8T-S91  – the parishes adjoin.      I am hopefully going to the Hive in Worcester sometime so could check the 1848 marriage for a father

As you say it all can get rather complicated.   I will not have time to go back to Hereford until next week at the earliest but would think that looking through other Parish Books for Hope would be useful in case other family members are mentioned and I can relook at Hope and adjoining parishes.

Yesterday we were in the area and had a look at the churchyard at St Marys at Hope, but most of gravestones before late 1800’s have been sadly cleared.

Best Wishes Kay

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #16 on: Monday 28 September 15 21:00 BST (UK) »
Many thanks Kay for sharing further details on the Gatehouses you encountered.

I am hoping that William Gatehouse (1754-1834) was from Hope, the son of William and Ann (m. 1747) as it would fit like a glove when linking him to the other Gatehouses listed on FamilySearch.

What does seem certain more and more is the link between Elizabeth and Thomas (her brother?). Although he listed Hope as his place of birth, given she was born in Leominster in 1788 and he a couple of years later, maybe he too was born in Leominster?

An even greater coincidence is his marriage in 1819 to Sarah Gatehouse in Kimbolton. As this place has already popped up before I'm starting to wonder whether there were not two branches of the same family, the Gatehouses of Hope and Kimbolton, and in 1819 they intermarried...

It's so frustrating the marriage records don't afford further details about couple's parents. But yes, anything further which might pop up in Hope, Leominster or Kimbolton which might link William Gatehouse (1754ish-1834) to his actual family would be a great leap forward (or backward in this case).

I don't know about Gatehouses buried nowadays in Hope but I remember visiting years ago and some of Elizabeth's descendants are buried close to the churchyard gate.

Thanks again for all the troubles you are taking on my behalf.

Best wishes,
Cimbrio
Herefordshire: ALLEN (Colwall), CARTWRIGHT (Kington & Almeley), DAVIS (Colwall), EVANS (Pembridge), GODSALL (Colwall), JONES (Whitbourne), MORRIS (Kington & Kinnersley), MOUND (Wormsley), TIPPINS (Staunton-on-Arrow), RODWAY (Colwall), VICKRESS (Wellington & Hope-under-Dinmore), WATKINS (Almeley)
Shropshire: MOUND (Hope Bagot)
Worcestershire: PARKER (Kempsey)

Online Kay99

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Re: Elizabeth Gatehouse, b. around 1785 Leominster
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 29 September 15 08:55 BST (UK) »
It could well be that the Gatehouse/Gittoes families of Hope/Leominster/Kimbolton were connected however the earlier the records go the more variation in the spelling of their names.  Sadly without proof such as Elizabeth's reference to her father's occupation at the time of her marriage in 1811 relationships pre 1800 are often the best option.

Sorry - this might be relevant later - but I got sidetracked by newspaper reports. One of the more prominent person's in the local Gatehouse family at the time seemed to be a Henry Gatehouse born 1759 Leominster parents Henry and Margaret who I think died in 1846 with his will on Anc.   Newspaper reports on him in 1815 list him as a Sworn  Bailiff of the Borough of Leominster and a report lists him as 88 when he died and another as an Alderman of Leominster.  I think his father Henry might well  have been Henry Gittoes b 1723 Bodenham parents Richard and Mary -which could well tie into your line somewhere!!

Best Wishes Kay