Author Topic: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds  (Read 9545 times)

Offline thecohens

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #9 on: Monday 21 March 11 05:03 GMT (UK) »
Interestingly though they have his death date as Bef 21 Aug 1953.
They aren't getting their information from the standard web sources...I have Paul's   date of death from the United Synagogue site as 30 Jul 1952, buried
Willesden.

Offline JeannieR

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 22 March 11 15:16 GMT (UK) »
Hello There....

Hope you do not mind me "butting" in.

I have the CDrom of Leeds Burials, and neither Esther or Moses appear on it, I am afraid.

One thing I have found though, is Moses , travelling from New York, and arriving at Liverpool, 5th March 1910 on board The Lusitania. He gave his birth place as Makowa , Russia. I think this is quite significant for you, as other members of your family were born there.

JeannieR
This information is Crown Copyright, from www.national archives.gov.uk

Offline Evie

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 22 March 11 15:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi JeannieR

Welcome on board :)

Interesting that Esther isn't buried in Leeds.

evie
Booth, Hornsby, Northumberland & Durham
Jackson, Northumberland & Durham
Douthwaite, N Yorks & Durham
Geldard, N Yorks
Ward, Cheshire & W Yorks
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Kirby, Lowe, Studholme, Geary, Emery, Baldock

census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline thecohens

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 23 March 11 13:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jeannie,

Thanks for taking an interest.

I have the CDrom of Leeds Burials, and neither Esther or Moses appear on it, I am afraid.

I am not familiar with this CDRom. Does it include Jewish cemeteries in the area? Or just Leeds proper? 

I suppose since they were fairly well off, they might have gotten buried in Israel?   I had not thought of checking Israeli burials, some religious Jews have themselves shipped there for burial upon their demise.

The other more likely possibility is that they may have been buried in a Jewish cemetery somewhere in England but their burials not indexed.

One thing I have found though, is Moses , travelling from New York, and arriving at Liverpool, 5th March 1910 on board The Lusitania. He gave his birth place as Makowa , Russia. I think this is quite significant for you, as other members of your family were born there.

Yes, I have seen the associated arrival in New York, and appreciate your finding the date he returned to England.  I was extremely interested in who he was going to see in the United States, as I do not yet know which of the Palestrants in the United States are related to my family.

Unfortunately, I think he was going to visit a nephew, Jack Cohen, in New York.  That is an extremely common name, and the most likely match is a child at or near the address given on that manifest whose family I have not yet researched thoroughly.

There are two thrusts to my research.   One is to figure out which Palestrants are related to Moses and Esther and how, and I have ordered a number of records from the GRO to help with this.

Many of the Palestrants who migrated to the United States had family members who lived in Leeds at some point, although some were born as Palestines!    But residence in Leeds at some point does not tell me how they are related to Moses, or if they are related to my family.

So, the other goal is to figure out how Moses's family is related to my Vishnick and Feldberg families.  For this, I am also hunting his mother Rosa's death and burial, although even if her tombstone has a familiar first name on it for her father, may not provide final resolution.

The BMD records for Makowa were destroyed in a fire in 1898, so I am not able to take the question back to Poland to find appropriate birth records in Makow.   All I can do is see if I can turn up appropriate related records elsewhere.

With regards to Rosa's death, there is not a clear entry at FreeBMD for her, but some entries with odd Palestrant first names.   These 1916 and 1918 Leeds death certificates for Arish and Rany are on the way to me.  I wish we could see the original handwriting, I have found that the official transcriptions often misspell foreign first names.  I hope I can tell who died on those dates!

Anyhow, I don't know if you saw that FamilySearch also has an 1897 record for a Moses Palestrant born Makow whose relation was Esther Segel, I think in a Belgian Passports database.  It might be my Moses, but I did now know what to make of it, if this was giving me Esther's maiden name or was a different Moses.

If Moses owned his house, would there have been a will and letter of administration?   I have not had the best luck ordering wills, but I wonder since we have a small range of years (early 1950's), and his is not a common name, if it would make sense to order a copy of his Probate file.   If it can be found, it would give his date of death, and maybe the names of other relatives in addition to  his brother Paul's family.

Thanks again for your input!


Offline JeannieR

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 26 March 11 16:30 GMT (UK) »
Hello again.....

I cannot find Rosa's death either, and I have trawled the death indexes.  I hope that the certificates you receive, turn out to be the ones you need...

I have found a marriage, which may be of interest.

Shiah Mendel Palestrant to ESTHER SHILLING, which took place March qtr 1892 / Mile End Town / vol 1c page 604

I also found that Joseph Leopold Palestrant, changed his name to TRENT, by deed poll in 1938 . Could Moses have done the same ?

I worked in the Jewellery industry, for many years in Leeds, 1960-1988 , and do not recall the name....

You could contact The Jewish Telegraph , founded 1950 . They do have a " looking for information " section

www.jewishtelegraph.com

JeannieR
This information is Crown Copyright, from www.national archives.gov.uk

Offline thecohens

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 27 March 11 05:51 BST (UK) »
I have found a marriage, which may be of interest.

Shiah Mendel Palestrant to ESTHER SHILLING, which took place March qtr 1892 / Mile End Town / vol 1c page 604

Yes, that is indeed!  I have ordered that marriage.  I had been thinking it is another Palestrant, but am getting suspicious that Shia Mendel and Moses are the same person, possibly explaining why I saw no sign of Shia Mendel in 1901. 

I also found that Joseph Leopold Palestrant, changed his name to TRENT, by deed poll in 1938 . Could Moses have done the same ?
I doubt that he would change his surname in his old age, not after his wife died and shortly before he apparently did as well. 

Joseph Leopold was Moses's nephew, the son of Moses' brother Paul.

Now, it is possible his death got misrecorded under a different surname accidentally, but I think I searched all Moses' (no surname entered) who died between 1950-1955 and did not see any likely matches.

I have updated my online tree to show more clearly  what I know so far at this point, before getting the marriage and death certificates that I have ordered.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=palestrant&id=I5

A friend suggested maybe Moses was travelling and that he died away from England.

I worked in the Jewellery industry, for many years in Leeds, 1960-1988 , and do not recall the name....

That is an interesting coincidence!

But, according to one website that Evie found, Moses died before 1955, so I would guess you most likely would not have heard of him.  Plus I think he was already retired by World War 2 when my cousins stayed with him.   He was born about 1880.

Offline thecohens

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 01 May 11 15:45 BST (UK) »
I have found a marriage, which may be of interest.

Shiah Mendel Palestrant to ESTHER SHILLING, which took place March qtr 1892 / Mile End Town / vol 1c page 604

Sigh.  I have now received the 1892  marriage certificate from the GRO for Shiah Mendel Palestrant, but it says he married Hannah Milchich!  He was age 21, a journeyman tailor, and his father was Simon Palestrant.  It says they were married East London Synagogue on 9 Feb 1892.

My Moses Palestrant was a jeweller born about 1871, but I believe his father was Joseph Palestrant (a nonmatch), based on his brother Paul's marriage and mother's death certificates.

I had not mentioned the bride when I ordered the certificate.  I am not sure how to proceed.  I checked the United Synagogue marriages and did not find anything resembling this  marriage listed, although it should be as it looks like they have posted 1892, and their listings include the East London Synagogue.
 
Where did you find that Shia Mendel married Esther Schilling?    How do I know which source is correct?

Thanks!

Offline JeannieR

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #16 on: Friday 06 May 11 12:14 BST (UK) »
Hello Again..

I am sorry, that through information I gave you, you purchased a certificate , that was of no use to you....

The details were from Ancestry, and Freebmd
March qtr /1892 / Mile End Town / vol 1c page 604

Louis Diamant
Hannah Milcrich
Shiah Mendel Palestrant
Esther Shilling

I did research the couples, before I notified you. There is no Louis Diamant with a wife Esther on the 1901 census, nor do they appear to have left England or died. But there was, of course a Palestrant with a wife Esther in Leeds.

I spent most of yesterday trying to find Moses passing. I tried every possible variation of the name . I feel he must have died c1949/1950 , as this is when mention of him stops in the telephone directory. I searched from 1949-1970.

On the 1911 census, apart from the family you know of, there is one other Palestrant in Leeds,
Aria ? Palestrant  I wonder if this is Shiah ? He was also a tailor. There is no Hannah though.

Ariah's death was registered in 1916, and there is a death for a "Hany" Palestrant registered in 1918 age 82. I wonder who this was .

Living where Moses did, he would have used the Louis Street Synagogue on Chapeltown Road.
I will try to find out if there are any archives. I also thought he may have entered a nursing home, as he would have been around 79/80 in 1950. I am not sure when Donisthorpe Hall was opened, but it is the oldest Jewish nursing home in Leeds. They would still have to register his death though

Had Moses decided to go to Israel, I feel certain he would have sailed there, but there is no record of this on passenger lists. I do not think there would be many flights then.

Moses is a mystery. I am not sure when I can get to Leeds again. I no longer drive, and my husband is waiting for a hip replacement, but I will see what I can come up with for you. We have quite a few Jewish friends who may be able to help . One of them had a father, who took his Oath of Allegiance on the same day as Paul Palestrant in 1904.

JeannieR
This information is Crown Copyright, from www.national archives.gov.uk

Offline thecohens

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Re: Moses and Esther Palestrant in Leeds
« Reply #17 on: Friday 06 May 11 15:09 BST (UK) »
Hello Again..

I am sorry, that through information I gave you, you purchased a certificate , that was of no use to you....
No need to apologize, I intended to order that certificate anyhow as I wanted to see who Shia Mendel was.  I just thought you had found a definite listing linking Shia Mendel to Esther Schilling, and got rattled when Hannah was his bride.

Since I do not know where my Vishnick family connects in to the Palestrant family as cousins, whether it was Moses' mother or one of his grandmothers or great grandmothers who was a Vishnick or Feldberg, all Palestrants are of interest to me.

I do suppose it is possible we are related through Moses' wife Esther, if she was a Vishnick or Feldberg, I cannot rule that possibility out.  Even though my family did stay connected with Paul's son, it does not confirm our connection was through their ancestors as opposed to the  wife of Moses.

I also had hunted for Louis Diamont with no luck, having seen  the partial listing at FreeBMD that did not include Esther.

I can answer your questions about Ariah and Hany as I now also have their death certificates.  Ariah is Moses' brother and Hany is their mother, apparently a very bad transcription of Rosy.  FreeBMD has it as Rany.  But the death certificates are very clear as to their relationships.

I do intend to obtain the 1911 censuses for all of them, but have not yet got my credits.  I am sure this will answer many questions, although of course it will not tell me when Moses died or where he and Esther were buried.

I spent most of yesterday trying to find Moses passing. I tried every possible variation of the name . I feel he must have died c1949/1950 , as this is when mention of him stops in the telephone directory. I searched from 1949-1970.
...
Moses is a mystery. I am not sure when I can get to Leeds again. I no longer drive, and my husband is waiting for a hip replacement, but I will see what I can come up with for you. We have quite a few Jewish friends who may be able to help . One of them had a father, who took his Oath of Allegiance on the same day as Paul Palestrant in 1904.

JeannieR
Thank you so very much for your efforts on my behalf.  It sounds like you have a lot of other things going on in your life besides genealogy and have your hands full.

If Moses was on vacation in Ireland (and we did have Vishnick relations there), his death would be in Irish rather than in British records.  But I would still expect he and Esther to be buried together in England.

There is a little less urgency to finding Moses's burial now that I have his father's name Joseph from his mother's death certificate and brother's marriage certificate.  I would like to know, and make the tree more complete, but at least I have his father's name. which is what makes Jewish tombstones so helpful in obtaining.  But of course if we tie together through Esther, her tombstone would be extremely helpful.

I also am researching the families of Moses' sisters who have turned up, as well as looking at the family of his brother Paul.  When I can take this far enough forwards, I expect to contact descendants to see if anyone in the family has done genealogy that is not on the web that will help  answer the basic question of how we are related.

So, I am waiting on more certificates to confirm the likely families I see in the censuses for sisters of Moses, are indeed mine before tracking them forwards after 1901 and 1911.

Thanks again.