Daniel Bell supposedly born 1821 Kilmichael, Glassary

[Foz405]

I'm hoping someone may be able to help.  I've exhausted all the internet sources I can find in looking for my ancestor who at the 1851 census was a grocer in Ardrishaig, having travelled to Dundee to marry Elizabeth Shand, then returning to give birth to Helen, (age 3 at the census).
Unfortunately, either the births were not registered, or more likely, they have been lost.

I would dearly like to find his parents.  I have been given unconfirmed information that his parents were Archibald Bell & Ann McLachlan married 1788, but this is patently incorrect as they were never married (to each other) according to ScotlandsPeople.

Any ideas, please ?

Grahame

[MonicaL]

Hi Grahame

Did Daniel Bell live past 1855 and die in Scotland? If so, his death cert should include his parents names which would let you confirm his family details.

I his parents were Archibald Bell & Ann McLachlan married 1788, but this is patently incorrect as they were never married (to each other) according to ScotlandsPeople.

Just like you are having problems finding the birth of young Helen born c.1848, it may be that there are similar problems finding potential parents' marriage. Just because you cannot find a marriage (which sadly is quite common), I wouldn't assume that they are not the right parents or that they didn't marry. But you do need to confirm through other sources such as Daniel's death cert.

Monica

Added: The family went off to Australia? Possible death for Daniel Bell in Victoria in 1895? Likely arrival for the Bell family in Aug. 1852 at Victoria, on the 'Flora Mcdonald', one additional son, Daniel b. 1852.

[MonicaL]

There are these births showing on IGI to an Archibald Bell and Ann McLachlan:

1. DUGALD BELL chr. 10 MAY 1819 Kilmartin, Argyll (submitted entry)
2. DONALD BELL b. 29 MAR 1821 Glassary, Argyll *
3. MARGARET BELL b.17 JUN 1825 Kilchrenan And Dalavich, Argyll
4. JOHN BELL b. 4 APR 1828 Kilchrenan And Dalavich, Argyll

* Donald and Daniel are first name variants, see www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=daniel  It could be that Daniel was registered as Donald. There are lots of first name variants in use in Scotland at that time.

Unlikely I would think that the 1788 marriage that has been found for an Archibald Bell and Ann McLachlan is the correct one. Likely there was a couple with these names born/married later given the birth years of children above for a couple with these names.

Monica

[MonicaL]

There is another Glassary birth showing on IGI:

Donald BELL b. Sept 1821 in Glassary, Argyll
Parents: James BELL and Jenate MITCHELL

This might be a better fit given the name of Daniel and Elizabeth's second born daughter:

Jessie Ann BELL b. 24 Oct. 1849/ chr. 12 Dec. 1849 in South Knapdale, Argyll

Jessie and Janet are also common first name variants....

Monica

[Foz405]

Thank you Monica.  The idea of Donald seems very likely.  I'll look at this further.

I haven't seen Daniel Bell's death certificate 1895/13803, but yes, he did die in 1895.

As an aside, I believe Helen's name was Helen Smith Bell (died on the Flora McDonald on the way to Portland).  His son was called John Smith Bell, and JSBs grandson (my father) was similarly called John Smith Bell.

[MonicaL]

Hi Graham

One possibility may be to look at the image of Jessie Ann's christening in 1849 in South Knapdale. You sometimes get lucky and find family members acting as sponsors.

Hard to guess where the Smith name comes in at this stage. Perhaps Elizabeth Shand's mother's name?

Monica

[Foz405]

There are these births showing on IGI to an Archibald Bell and Ann McLachlan:

1. DUGALD BELL chr. 10 MAY 1819 Kilmartin, Argyll (submitted entry)
2. DONALD BELL b. 29 MAR 1821 Glassary, Argyll *
3. MARGARET BELL b.17 JUN 1825 Kilchrenan And Dalavich, Argyll
4. JOHN BELL b. 4 APR 1828 Kilchrenan And Dalavich, Argyll

* Donald and Daniel are first name variants, see www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=daniel  It could be that Daniel was registered as Donald. There are lots of first name variants in use in Scotland at that time.

Unlikely I would think that the 1788 marriage that has been found for an Archibald Bell and Ann McLachlan is the correct one. Likely there was a couple with these names born/married later given the birth years of children above for a couple with these names.

Monica

Thanks again.  Given that we have a copy of the contents of an old diary from Daniel's grand-daughter mentioning Archibald and Ann as the parents, I would say this is quite likely.  Too, Dugald is supposed to be the father, which fits given the children.

Thank you very much.

PS, I've researched the Shands as far as possible (a lot of Alexanders), and no Smith there.  Maybe it was popular at the time in the early 19th century, much the same as Australia was a popular girl's middle name around federation in OZ.

[MonicaL]

In Scotland, it was common to use surnames as middle names for children, particularly from the maternal side. First named daughters often called after their maternal grandmother (as per Scottish naming pattern). Not yet seeing anything though from the names of Daniel and Elizabeth's children's names that helps though...

Monica

[IvanKing]

Hi Graham
Did you make any further progress on Daniel/Donald Bell after the message interchange with Monica?

I've just come across your work as I'm doing some investigations for my daughter-in-law's tree.  I'm now pretty sure that my daughter in law is descended from the Jessie Ann Bell line, but I will need to order a couple of certificates to be certain of the connection.  I saw your GGrandfather, John Smith Bell, as one of the children born around Portland to Daniel and Elizabeth.

Is this is the Daniel Bell in the 1856 Vic electoral roll for Normanby? ... it lists Daniel Bell as a sawyer, of Sevenmile bridge, Bolwarra - I see from Google Maps that Bolwarra is part to Portland, Vic.

Regards
Ivan King, of Kiama Downs, NSW

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