John James Carter Wirral Cheshire

[DEN95DEB]

My G G Grandfather John James Carter b 1829 married Catherine Mary Garner b 1832 around 1858/9. They had 4 children Emma Kate b 1859, William Edward b 1860, Julia Fiddes b 1862, James Thornburgh b 1863. The children were born Churchwood Wirral Cheshire. They left for Australia in 1869 on the ship Hogton Tower arriving Melbourne Sept 1869. A Joseph Garner Blain was travelling with them also. Catherine may have been married before. I have trace the family here in Australia but would love to know more about the family in England, Maybe even contact a cousin.
Thanks Dennis in OZ

[peterbennett]

Hi Dennis
               I have just been having a quick search around for your family 1861 and did not have a great deal of sucsess, it would appear that John James S Carter married Catherine Mary Blair (this may have been a transcription error for Blain) in 1859 at St. Mary's Birkenhead. Joseph Garner Blain was born in Liverpool in June 1852.

Here is the 1851 census record for the Garner family, it shows a possible for Josephs father. I have not been able to find a marriage as yet between John Blain and Catherine.

HO107-2175-F 751 New Chester Road Tranmere

Margaret Garner head wid 47  Lady born Liverpool
John C Garner     son unwed 22 clerk          ~
Catherine M        daug u 20
Margaret                         17
Ada                                 11
Fanny                               9
Elenor                               7
Thomas Melling visitor 27 ale & porter merchant Cheshire
John Blain Visitor 24 Gentleman Liverpool
         
         Also 2 of the children of Catherine and James were born in Tranmere and 2 in Woodchurch not Churchwood.
         Is it possible to tell me the John's fathers name and there address on from the marriage certificate ?
        I will do a little more hunting around to see what can be found.

peterbennett

[DEN95DEB]

Thanks very much Peter,
Yes it's a bit of a mystery. I have purchased certificates over here in Australia. The children show their mothers maiden name on their wedding cert's as Garner but on John's death cert it shows his spouse as Kate Blain. On John's death cert it shows his fathers name as William mother unknown.
It shows on the passenger list as John 39 and Catherine 38 in 1869. Joseph Garner Blain was 17. Joseph married in Melbourne to Hester Blanche Downward in 1877 they had 2 children before his wife and youngest child passed away. They are buried in Melbourne with James Thornburgh Carter, John and Catherine youngest son. Joseph remarried in 1886 to Constance Adelaide Rosenthal. They had 1 child in 1887 but can't find any trace of them in Australia after that. The Carters moved to Sydney around 1878.
Thanks Again
Dennis Cox

[allibaker]

living in oxton and woodchurch cheshire in 1861-
john carter 36yrs cashier to birkenhead iron works born liverpool lancashire
catherine.m 30yrs wife born liverpool
joseph.g blain 8yrs stepson born liverpool
emma.k carter 1yr daughter born oxton and woodchurch
william.g 1 month son born oxton and woodchurch
ada garner 21yrs unmarried sister in law born liverpool
elizabeth tower 17yrs house servant
SOURCE INFO-RG9-2647
FOLIO-77
PAGE-50
regards
alli

[allibaker]

the only possible john carter born liverpool c 1831 i see in 51 is a lodger in yorkshire so doesnt help with family.
however here are your garners in 1841-
upper stanhope street
tranmere
joseph garner 35yrs merchant
margaret 35yrs
john 13yrs
catherine 11yrs
julia 9yrs
margaret 7yrs
emma 3yrs
ada 1yr
lucy hamilton 15yrs female servant
SOURCE INFO-H0107-567/4
FOLIO-48
PAGE-11
regards
alli

[Neptune]

Hi Dennis

Ancestry(uk) has the complete Births Marriages and Deaths index for England and Wales so I had a look for marriages in 1851 as Catherine's son was born in 1852.
In the second quarter(April-June)

Surnames 'G'- select page 10 there's an entry for-

Catherine Mary Garner  vol xx   page 272   Liverpool.

I did the same for surnames 'B' (select page 97)-there's an entry for-

John Blain    vol xx   page 272

This is a possibility that they were married to each other.

The General Register Office in Southport  Lancashire should be able to trace the marriage with this reference number if you wanted to apply for a copy.

I'll enclose the link for the GRO just in case you need it.

www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content

Hope this helps

Regards

Neptune

[everything]

I stumbled on this query today while researching a DNA match to a Dorman family that shares your descent from the subject of your query.

Here's what I found:

John James Sowerby Carter, bachelor, son of John Sowerby Carter, married, at St. Mary's in Birkenhead, 29 Jan. 1859, Catherine Mary Blain, widow, daughter of Joseph Garner:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3FM-94Y

In the 1851 census, John James Sowerby, a bookkeeper, 22, born Liverpool, was enumerated on Woodchurch Road, Oxton Birkenhead, in the household of the bookkeeper Thomas Nichols:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG29-N3L

This is presumably within a mile or so of where your John and Catherine Carter were living in the 1861 census:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7GC-X5F

John James Sowerby, son of John and Emma, was baptized at St. Peter's in Liverpool on 12 Dec. 1830:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVYV-457

The OnLine Parish Clerk transcription of the baptism has the father, John Sowerby, as a mariner, abode Whitechapel:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Liverpool-Central/stpeter/baptisms_1830s.html

John Sowerby married Emma Thornburgh in 1823 at the Church of St. James in Liverpool:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NX4C-6QT

The marriage intention, dated 25 Aug. 1823, is indexed here, with the prospective groom's name mistranscribed as "Lowerby": 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBX7-7R4

Other children of John Sowerby and Emma Thornburgh:

Emma Adelaide Sowerby, of 42 Whitechapel, baptized at St. Peter's in Liverpool on 19 Dec. 1831:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNHZ-C2K

Francis Henry Sowerby, baptized at St. Peter's on 15 Apr. 1834:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYSP-33P

The OnLine Parish Clerks transcription of this entry records the father John Sowerby as a master mariner, of Sefton Street, Toxteth Park:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Liverpool-Central/stpeter/baptisms_1834i.html

and the following St. James, Toxteth, burial entry indicates that Francis died aged 9 months, and was buried on 20 Aug. 1834:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Toxteth/stjames/burials_1827-1835.html

Emma Sowerby, widow, of Toxteth Park, married next, 7 Jul. 1835, at St. Mary's, Walton-on-the-Hill, Lancs., William Carter, teacher, Toxteth Park.  The witnesses were John Bell and James Richmond.  In both the OnLine Parish Clerks transcription and the various Family Search transcriptions, the surname Sowerby is incorrectly transcribed as Lowerby:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Walton/stmary/marriages_1831-1837.html

(Married the same day at St. Mary's, John Bell, Millwright, and Jane McCarter, spinster, witnesses Jane Robinson and William Carter.)

William and Emma  Carter were enumerated in 1841 at Bidston, Cheshire, with their daughter Sarah Carter, 4, and Emma's two children, John Sowerby, 10, and Emma Sowerby, 9:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7M1-C35

Sarah Ann Carter, daughter of William and Emma, was baptized at St. Peter's in Liverpool on 26 Mar. 1837:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9M8-4X8

Matilda Carter, daughter of William and Emma of London Road, her father a school master, was born on 6 Jan. and baptized at Christ Church, Hunter Street, Liverpool, on 10 Jan. 1838:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Liverpool-Central/christchurchh/baptisms_1826-1838.html


Good luck with your research --

John