John Steel and Mary Neilson

[blackfacesheep]

Maggie1895 you have made my day!!! :
Thank you so much for all that information.  
Jane Owens was one of the names that came up in my searching but, with nothing else to go by, she was only one of several "contenders" for John's wife. It was, indeed, a surprise to learn that Robert had been married before he married my grandmother and I wonder if my father even knew that, being the second youngest in the family.  Parents often didn't share this information with their children in those days.
Another intriguing matter is that Mary McGuigan's mother's maiden name was McKie.  My father always told us that we belonged to Clan Mackay. Perhaps that is the connection, or perhaps the connection is through the Neilsons??
Anyway, I can't thank you enough for your generous help in my search.

[Maggie1895]

Blacksheepface, you are very welcome.    I've had so much help and advice myself from this board since I joined.
Since I posted ev has found John and Janet's marriage.   In England, unfortunately, so you won't get the same amount of detail that you do on the Scottish certificates but it should give you confirmation of their father's names if you send for the certificate.   

[Maggie1895]

Another little bit for the jigsaw:

1891 census
John Steel, age 53, Mariner, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Address:
54 Mair Street, Govan - the address that Robert and Mary Jane were married at the previous year
Rest of household:
Angus McKechnie, 30, Blacksmith,  born Dumbarton
Mary McKechnie, 30, born England
Mary McKechnie, age 8, born Glasgow
Angus McKechnie, 1 year 7 months, born Glasgow

Mary McKechnie (the wife and mother) has named John Steel as her father on her return, and John confirms this by giving his 'relationship to Head of Household' as 'Father in Law'.
So Mary was Robert's sister, and that's why Robert and Mary Jane gave the same address on their marriage lines.   Nowadays that wouldn't raise an eyebrow but this was 1890.   They were staying quite respectably with his sister and her husband.

Census reference is Parish: Govan; ED: 2; Page:  8; Line: 13; Roll: CSSCT1891_300; Year: 1891.   I found the information on a search site but to see the copy of the original sheet you are back going to SP again

[ev]

IGI family search has -

john ne(i?)lson steel birth 10th feb. 1863 govan lanarkshire scotland
walter neilson steel birth 8th feb. 1865 govan lanark
william neilson steel birth 22nd feb 1868 tradeston glasgow lanark

parents john steel and jane owen(s)

ev

[Maggie1895]

feeding off ev's post with the birthdates, here they are in the 1871 census:
11 Marlow Street, Govan
John is 34 and a Seaman
Jane is 35, the first clue I think we have to her birth year, born in England
Children:
Henry 14, Robert 12, Mary 10, John 8, Walter 6.
The elder 3 were born in England, John and Walter in Glasgow
(sadly just realised no record of William)


added: and here's the family in 1861 with an English address:
They are in the West Derby area of Lancashire, at No. 31 Kensington or possible Kissington(?)
Jane is 26 and the Head of the Household.    She lists herself as 'Seaman's wife', born in Liverpool
John Henry is 4, Robert Nilson (sic) is 3, Mary Nilson is 3 months, and there is a 15 year old Servant, Rose Whalagg or Whabagg, from Dublin, Ireland.     
(I think Rose's entry isthe first time I've seen the place in Ireland specified, I wish that same enumerator had taken the details for some of my relatives)
RG9/ 2731/ 86 p 16;
The interesting thing is that Neilson appears for both Robert and Mary, even though mis-spelled on the form, but for Henry he is listed as John Henry.  He's 4, and 10 years later Henry is shown as 14, so it's not the sad case of one child dying and their using the name again, it has to be the same boy.    So if ever you search for Henry's birth of any reason, he may be listed as John.

[blackfacesheep]

Maggie895
This is all quite fascinating. I've been out all day so need to get my mind back into gear. Little things keep coming back to me from my father's conversations when I was a child but it appears from the dates you have been able to give me, it must have been my great grand father, John, who sailed on the old windjammers around Cape Horn to Australia as, by the time Robert was sailing here (and I know he did), there were steam ships and the Suez canal had been built. My father spoke about tales of icy, salt encrusted sails being rolled during storms only to be blown back out by gusts of wind, taking the sailor's fingernails with them. These stories must have come from his grand father, John, and not his father.
Back to the family members. It now also appears possible that Robert had other children before he married my grandmother, Mary Jane, as he was listed as "widower" when he married her.  So intriguing and tantalisingly elusive  :)So much more to learn.

[Maggie1895]

Last try!   Robert was 29 when he married in 1890 as a widower, so I'm assuming any children of the first marriage must have been born between 1880 and 1890.
If you search Lanarkshire births for Steel, there are 79 pages so quite hopeless but if you search putting Neilson into the forename, 4 came up.  You'd need to look at the certificates at 5 credits a time to see if Robert is the father - they could be children of his brothers who would also be liable to use the family name.   Here they are for what it's worth (not all the list came up as 1880-90 so some you already know of)
Martha Neilson Steel, born 1883 Bridgeton, Glasgow Ref 644/01 1123
Walter Neilson Steel, born 1887 Kinning Park, Glasgow Ref 644/14 0552

The list also gave
Walter, born 1865 Govan, Ref 646/01 0138 - I think you already know of him, and
William, born 1868, Tradeston, Ref 644/09 0356
As I remember it, they are Robert's younger brothers?

The sad but very common explanation of Robert losing his first wife could well be in childbirth.   You may find a death certificate for a Mrs Steel in the area after, or within a few months, of the birth of Walter (assuming that he is Robert's son).   That leaves a decent interval before the second marriage.

[blackfacesheep]

ev
Thank you for your input.  Every little piece of information fills in another piece of the jigsaw and makes my own searching that much easier. As I said before, I'm totally new to this and find myself going up so many blind allies which all takes so much time.
The Neilsons are a curious bunch in that some retain the name and others drop it. I still haven't managed to find if or where James Beaumont Neilson fits into our family.

[blackfacesheep]

Maggie1895
Thank you again. You took the words right out of my mouth (or rather, keyboard) as I was also going to suggest childbirth as a possible cause of the death of Robert's first wife - very common in those days.  I will now try and follow up on your suggestions.