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Author Topic: Marriage / Baptism look up Hammersmith/Fulham  (Read 2337 times)

Offline kimboha

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Marriage / Baptism look up Hammersmith/Fulham
« on: Tuesday 12 April 11 12:31 BST (UK) »
Hi
I am struggling information re my gr.gr. grandfather Alfred James Brown (born 1866/67 Hammersmith) as there were a few others of the same name born in the Kensington District at this time. If I could find a marriage record it would really help me. I have tried just about every search variation I can think of, to no success. Maybe someone can access some originals or church records?

The 1901 census suggest his birth place is Hammersmith in 1866/1867 and I know that his 'wife' is Jessie Mary Goudie was born in Battersea about 1868.  They raised their 4 children in Fulham/Hammersmith so I guess they married here too? Jessie's father's name is James Goudie and her mother was Eliza Sarah Fry. Jessie and Alfred had children born in Fulham as follows; Alfred J (1881) Albert E (1891) Jessie Selina (1895) Charles and Sophie Eleanor (1901).

It is possible that he never actually married - but the census records of 1901 states he is married and in the 1911 census his wife is record as 'widowed.  Did people lie on the census records about their marriage status if kids were involved? I guess the alternative answer could be that she Jessie married twice . .  . but unlikely.

I hope someone can she some light!!!
Many thanks, Kim



Offline Valda

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Re: Marriage / Baptism look up Hammersmith/Fulham
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 April 11 13:01 BST (UK) »
Hi

So this is the earliest census you have the couple? Any status they give on censuses is up to them. People also did not give accurate information on birth and marriage certificates for whatever reason. Until the second half of the C20th it was a matter of bluffing it out with the registrar or church official. Therefore a legitimate birth certificate is not proof of a legitimate birth.


1891 census RG12 35 folio 95
7 Holeman Street Hammersmith
Alfred Brown 24 Head Married Greengrocer Hammersmith London
Jessie Brown 23 Wife Married Battersea
Alfred J Brown 2 Son Hammersmith London
Albert E Brown 9/12 Son Hammersmith London
 
 
 Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Eyesee

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Re: Marriage / Baptism look up Hammersmith/Fulham
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 12 April 11 13:13 BST (UK) »
What about this one in 1881

5 Elizabeth Cottages, Hammersmith
George BROWN, head mar 62, Labourer, born Hampstead Norris, Bucks
Jane BROWN, wife mar 55, born Bow, Middlesex
Alfred BROWN, son 15, Labourer, born Hammersmith, Middlesex
Albert BROWN, son 11, Scholar, born ditto
RG11/58/24/8

They were in Hammersmith in 1871, and George and Jane were there in 1861. Only Alfred BROWN I can see born in Hammersmith in that time period

Ian C
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CLAPHAM, PARKINSON, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, FURNER All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
CHALKLEY, OLNEY, Hertfordshire
HARRIS, Essex

Offline kimboha

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Re: Marriage / Baptism look up Hammersmith/Fulham
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 12 April 11 19:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian and Valda
Thanks for your efforts and prompt replies.
I think maybe my ancestors were 'fibbers' on the marriage front, if it was possible to bend the truth in those days!!
I can see two Alfred Browns registered under the Kensington District, one in June 1866 and one in Dec1866  -  and assumed I would need to buy both records before I can ascertain which one came from Hammersmith.  Ian, do you mind me asking what sources you have used to find just one Alfred Brown from Hammersmith - because if it gives me a clue as to purchasing the correct record it would be a great help.  I did find a few Alfreds via the census records who were born in 'Hammersmith' a this time and by process of elimination came to the conclusion that you did that his parents were George and Jane - but I was reluctant to go with this unless I had some facts/records to prove it.  Maybe your findings are enough to support my own suspicions.
Thanks once again ;D

Offline Valda

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Re: Marriage / Baptism look up Hammersmith/Fulham
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 12 April 11 20:01 BST (UK) »
Hi


Coming at it from a slightly different angle.


On the 1891 census Alfred and Jessie were living at 7 Holcombe Street Hammersmith. I went back and double checked the reference to be sure.

http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Fulham_Registration_District,_1891_Census_Street_Index_G-I


George and his family in 1891

1891 census RG12 45 folio 10
8 North End Road Fulham
George Brown 72 Head Married Pensioner and Agent Hampsted Norris Berkshire
Jane Brown 66 Wife Married Bow London
Albert E Brown 23 Son Omnibus driver Hammersmith London
plus 1 boarder


Albert's marriage

25th March 1893 St Peter, Hammersmith
Albert Edward Brown 25 Bachelor Cabman 18 Holcombe Street George Brown Dead
Ada Sophia Chalk 23 Spinster 4 South Street William Chalk Furniture Dealer
Both signed
Witnesses George Burnard and Edith Cooper


St Paul's Hammersmith the parish church has its registers deposited at Hammersmith Archives - nothing online and nothing indexed (online).
Only Alfred and Jessie's son Charles Henry seems to have been baptised at St Peter's Hammersmith 31st January 1900 and by then Alfred and Jessie were not of Holcombe Street.

 
1871 census RG10 62 folio 12
Mansion House St Hammersmith
George Brown 51 Head Married Agent Hampstead Berks
Jane Brown 43 Wife Married Dressmaker Bow Middlesex
Martha J Brown 15 Daughter Servant Chiswick? Middlesex
John James Brown 12 Son Office Boy Fulham Middlesex
Henry Brown 10 Son Hammersmith Middlesex
Arthur Brown 8 Son Hammersmith Middlesex
Alfred Brown 5 Son Hammersmith Middlesex
Albert Brown 2 Son Hammersmith Middlesex



Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kimboha

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Re: Marriage / Baptism look up Hammersmith/Fulham
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 12 April 11 22:27 BST (UK) »
 :D Thanks so much for this Valda!! ;D
I had found the census records for George Brown &co.  dating back to 1851, but still felt hesitant placing this family in my tree as it just felt like a hunch - I needed more proof.  Thanks for taking the time to think about this from another angle - it seems to suggest that I do have the right Browns after all - as it must have been likely that Alfred and his brother Albert lived close by in Hammersmith - I will look Albert up on the census records . . . good thinking on your part!  Alfred and Jessie had three sons, two of which were also called Alfred and Albert - that was another reason that I thought George's family was likely to be correct. Thanks also for the tip re Hammersmith Archives - I have just emailed them to see if they can help to validate via their marriage records. 
This is my first day using RootsChat and I am very impressed by the speed of your response and really appreciate your help.  You are a star!  :D

Offline Valda

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Re: Marriage / Baptism look up Hammersmith/Fulham
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 12 April 11 23:07 BST (UK) »
Hi


Also check with Hammersmith archives to see if they hold any of the baptisms of Alfred and Jessie's children to see what addresses are given. It would be good if there is an exact match to Albert Edward's address on his marriage in 1893. He may have moved in with his older brother after the death of his father and possibly mother (or she may have gone to live with one of her older children after her husband's death).

There may be a delay in receiving a response from the archives however

http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/News/Archive_reading_room_to_remain_open.asp


Unless the marriage is missing off the civil registration index St Paul's Hammersmith marriage registers will not be able to supply evidence of the marriage.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk