Underhill's of Warwickshire

[Mansl]

I spent most of my life in Bishops Tachbrook. In the sixties I used to play domioes with Albert Underhill he would have been in his eighties. He had a son called Ken who lived in the village with his wife and children.

I also have the Underhills from Tachbrook in my tree. The earliest I have is Thomas born 1825 married Sarah Gilks 25/3/1847 at Southam. His parents were John and Sarah he died in 1871 at Bridge End, Warwick.

Alan

[Benody1921]

I come from a line of Underhills.

Clementia Underhill (1675-1760) was my 8th great grandmother. She married William Coldicott in 1703. She was the daughter of George Underhill and Hannah Huckvale.

My 3rd great grandmother was a Coldicott and she married a Gough, which is my nan's maiden name.

[Keith1961]

I realise I am replying to an old thread but I am new to this site.

My 5 x great grandparents William Coldicott (c.1725 -1791) and Joyce (nee Waters)  Coldicott (1729 - ? ). They were married in 1757. Their grandchildren include an Underhill and thereafter the name appears as a first and middle name for several generations - my grandfather was named John Underhill Coldicott (1898-1957), and so was his uncle, my great great uncle (1852 - c. 1920).
Is there a link to the marriage, in 1703 at Shipton-on-Stour, Warks, between (a different) William Coldicott (1671-1746) from Ilmington, Warks, and Clementia Underhill (1675-1760)? Descendants of this marriage also have Underhill as a first and middle name. You would imagine that there is a connection between the appearance of the Underhill name in my branch of the Coldicotts and this marriage but I cannot confirm the relationship between the two Williams. I don't have any reason to think there is any blood connection between Joyce and Clementia, because the Underhills were from south Warwickshire whilst the Waters were from Coventry.
The two Williams are not father and son or father and grandson. I know that William (1671) had a son William but his dates were 1704-1772. They also had a grandson William, but he was born 1744. In any case I am 99% certain that the parents of my William Coldicott (c.1725) were John and Mary (nee Lane) of Blockley, Worcs.
So the question is why would the Underhill surname appear in our branch of the family as a first name, the same as in Clementia's branch, unless there was a relationship between the two Williams? There are I guess three possibilities:
1. The two Williams are closely related but we are just missing an obvious connection
2. There were two independent marriages between a Coldicott and an Underhill, I happen to only know about one of them, and there are connections between the two branches of the two families but they are distant enough not to be obvious.
3. As per 2 above, but the two lots of Coldicotts and Underhills are not related at all - i.e. their surnames arose randomly for geographical reasons in the south Warks / east Worcs / north Gloucs triangle.
My feeling is that 2 is the most likely explanation but that is purely instinctive.

[Benody1921]

That's interesting! There must be a connection to the Underhills. I'd be curious to see what the connection is.

In my tree I have an Underhill Coldicott born about 1772 in Coventry to John Coldicott (1742) and Sibella Ludford. Those are the only line of Coldicotts I have that were in Coventry.

Now I'm curious and want to figure it out.

[Keith1961]

I am aware of the John and Underhill Coldicott you refer to - they are respectively the grandson and great grandson of William and Clementia. John's father, who was William & Clementia's son, was also Underhill (1715-76). John and his descendants, including the younger Underhill, seem to be recorded as Caldicott, not Colidcott. The younger Underhill did not survive childhood, dying in 1778.

John also had two brothers called Underhill: the first died as a baby in 1752 and the second lived 1756-83 but had no descendants.

There are descendants of John and his siblings (who kept the Coldicott spelling) listed through the 20th century but they do not seem to have a Coventry or Warks connection and one large branch settled in Australia. There don't seem to be any further Underhills amongst them.

My source for all of the above is a Genes Reunited contact of mine who first alerted me to William and Clementia but like me cannot find the link with my branch of the Coldicotts despite having 24,000 names in his tree.

[Benody1921]

I'm going to see what I can find. What sources do you have for William's parents and birth date? There seem to be a few trees on Ancestry with different parents for William. Do you know where he might have been born?

[Keith1961]

Sorry, just to be clear, which William do you mean? My 5 x great grandfather who married Joyce Waters or the one who married Clementia Underhill?

[Benody1921]

The one who married Joyce Waters. I'm a descendant of William and Clementia.

I've started looking at the Coldicotts and Waters. It's hard to get back one more generation on them. There's a lot of William Colidcotts born around the same time and same area. I only have a sub to Ancestry so I can't see what's on Find My Past but it might have more. I tried using Family Search as well. Going by other trees seems useless because everyone has different information. The sources they have are fine but there's no way of knowing if they have the correct baptism. In those situations I usually look at the father's name. So for example there was a William Coldicott born to Stephen and Hannah. The date is a bit off but the place looks good. I would think that the name Stephen would have been given to one of William and Joyce's sons, even if just a middle name. So for now I'm going to say that Stephen is probably not the father of your William. I like to try to prove and disprove that.

You say that you believe William's parents were John Coldicott and Mary Lane. So again, try to prove or disprove it. Yours is the first I've seen to have those parents. Other trees have Stephen and Hannah but other names as well. I'm less likely to believe those other trees only because I've seen the baptisms that they have sourced and I don't think there's any logic behind it. I think it's likely they saw the baptism as a hint. Name looks good, birth date is close enough, place looks good so it must be for him. I like to do more sleuthing than that.

I haven't dug into William and Joyce's children too much yet. Is it just Joseph Waters Coldicott who uses the Underhill name for his children?

[Keith1961]

The 1725 birth date for William is an educated guess – it could be earlier in the 1720s or later. I don't have a birthplace for him either but believe Warwickshire rather than Coventry. If he is the son of John Coldicott (c. 1680 – 1758, born Blockley, Worcs)  and Mary Lane (1790 – c 1757) then he had siblings John, Elizabeth and Mary.  This, as I recall, came from John’s will which was supplied to me by a Gene Reunited contact but unfortunately is on my old PC. I may be able to retrieve it from a back up.

Joyce Waters, daughter of Joseph Waters and Hannah Porter (married 10/02/1723 at St. Michael’s Coventry),  was baptised in Barcheston, Warks, on 09/11/1729 and married William, also at St. Michael’s Coventry, 15/8/1757. This baptism and these weddings have certificate details recorded in various places and so are reliable.

There is evidence from their wills for William’s death  in 1791 and his brother John’s in 1779, and William is said to be interred in the churchyard of St. John’s Coventry.

Both Waters and Underhill appear as middle names among the descendants of William and Joyce’s son, Joseph Waters Coldicott (1759-1835), Waters for 3 generations and Underhill for 4, the last instance I am aware of being my grandfather, John Underhill Coldicott (1898-1957).

Few of Joseph’s siblings lived long enough to have descendants. His older sister Mary (1755-1833, note: born out of wedlock) married Wale Windsor and the Windsor name is the only one regularly used in that line. His brother George (1764-1797) had 3 daughters and a son – one daughter was called Joyce Waters Coldicott but there are no Underhills recorded.