Author Topic: Catherine Mary O'HALLORAN and Henry Joseph FRENCH  (Read 14274 times)

Offline 85jbk

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Catherine Mary O'HALLORAN and Henry Joseph FRENCH
« on: Saturday 30 April 11 12:38 BST (UK) »
Catherine Mary O'Halloran married Henry Joseph French 1862, Registration # on the Vict BDM was #1765. I do not have the cert.
They went on to have many children all born in Benalla,Victoria,Australia.
1. Mary Ann b 1864   d1866
2. Fran b 1866
3. Catherine b 1868
4. Margaret b 1870
5. Henry Joseph b 1872
6. Mary b 1874
7. Teresa b 1876   d 1876
8. John William b 1878

There is also a death for a Catherine French, aged 39 in 1885 #4216 on the Victorian BDM registrars. Father is listed as Pat O'Halloran and Mother is Catherine Canavan.

Have  any of the rootschaters researched this family and are both Catherines one of the same?
Thanks and look forward to your help

85jbk
Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: Catherine Mary O'Halloran and Henry Joseph French
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 30 April 11 14:44 BST (UK) »
Considering that her death was registered in the Benalla & she is buried with Henry their MI proves that it is her  :)

Their burial details & a photograph of their grave is available here:

http://www.benallacemetery.com/cemetery/surname/french/2850

Offline 85jbk

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Re: Catherine Mary O'Halloran and Henry Joseph French
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 May 11 04:03 BST (UK) »
Thank You Merlin. The Clare on The Headstone is fantastic! BUT this still doesnt prove anything.

Now this is where it gets tricky as I am trying to prove if this Catherine is in fact my missing Mary!

Three Sisters, Mary 28yrs, Bridget 22 yrs and Ellen 21 yrs all  came from Ireland in 1854 aboard the China to Australia. With their Brother Paul following later..

Their Father John O'Halloran listed as a Corn & Butter dealer had died sometime before they Left Ireland with their Mother Catherine living in Limerick.
We have established that Bridget first married William Sheriff then John Salter. Ellen married John French( and this is why I suspect perhaps Catherine and Henry are the ones, with Henry and John being related) and Paul married Margaret Hernchen. I might mention all these families lived around the Benalla,Violet Town,Tamleugh,Gowangardie townships.

I have unsucessfully tried to find Mary with many certificates later and still no trace of her.

I got to thinking that this Catherine listed marrying to Henry French was a huge possibility but more of a coincedence with her name being Catherine Mary. The thing that throws me is her mother is listed as Catherine Canavan and her Father Pat O'Halloran and not John O'Halloran & Catherine O'Brien(Ryan) as her sisters certificates list.

Is this me grasping at straws or a huge possibility

I look forward to your thoughts... confused and wanting answers ???
Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: Catherine Mary O'Halloran and Henry Joseph French
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 01 May 11 04:34 BST (UK) »

Thank You Merlin. The Clare on The Headstone is fantastic! BUT this still doesnt prove anything.


Your question was to prove that the Catherine who married Henry was the death registered in 1885 which is exactly what I gave you in my reply.

Their marriage registration on the index does not name her as Catherine Mary in fact the only time I can see the name Mary used is on one of the children's births (I haven't checked any of the childrens deaths yet).

Her marriage certificate could possibly hold clues to what you are looking for, they are more reliable than death certificates.

If you purchase the marriage certificate it will contain such information as:

Date and place of marriage
Name and surnames
Conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower
Stating date of deceased of former wife or husband
Children by each former marriage
Birthplace
Occupation
Age
Residence present and usual
Parent's names of each party including mother's maiden name and occupation of father
Signatures of the parties and witnesses
Signature of Minister
Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of the parties is also shown

You can purchase online & download it immediately to your computer for a cost of $17.50 here:

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Apart from that we can always start a search to see if we can pull it together in some other way.


Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: Catherine Mary O'HALLORAN and Henry Joseph FRENCH
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 01 May 11 05:01 BST (UK) »
There is a probate file for Catherine's husband Henry Joseph FRENCH who died 20 Mar 1896:

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=54

Death:

FRENCH Hy Jos age 61yrs d. 1896 BENALLA #523
Father: French Jno Wm
Cath Sarah UNKNOWN



Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: Catherine Mary O'HALLORAN and Henry Joseph FRENCH
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 01 May 11 05:19 BST (UK) »
If your Mary was 28yo when she arrived in 1854 = born c1826.
You suspect that she married as Catherine in 1862 that would make her 36yo at marriage & 59yo at death if Mary & Catherine were the same person.

The death of Catherine in the index & on the headstone clearly shows that Catherine was born 1846 & 39yo when she died.

Do you still think it possible to be the same person?


Offline 85jbk

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Re: Catherine Mary O'HALLORAN and Henry Joseph FRENCH
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 01 May 11 05:20 BST (UK) »
Oh Yes Merlin you are indeed correct and I thank you for your prompt and informative reply.

I apoligize if this read any other way :-[

This was me thinking out loud. I guess what I really should have said was it was great to see Clare mentioned on the headstone as the girls Mary Bridget Ellen and brother Paul all came from an Area in Ireland, Clare. But this wasnt to prove they were related or from the same family.

I will try your first suggestion of dowloading a copy of the marriage cert but failing this can we go with your second suggestion of starting a search.

Thanks for the added probate of Catherines Husband.
85jbk
Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

Offline 85jbk

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Re: Catherine Mary O'HALLORAN and Henry Joseph FRENCH
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 01 May 11 05:27 BST (UK) »
In reply to your dates on Catherine/Mary, yes I can see your point and I kept telling myself the same thing but it is not the first time I have had certain kin tell porkies on their ages.
Where do I go from here give up and start again?
85jbk
Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: Catherine Mary O'HALLORAN and Henry Joseph FRENCH
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 01 May 11 05:46 BST (UK) »
Yes, many of them did tell 'porkies' just as many of the immigration records have errors on them.

There are many Mary O'HALLORAN marriages on the index from Ireland & to possibly define which one could be her would be to go through all the deaths & hope that her parents names are listed & correctly at that.

It's up to you, you can purchase the marriage certificate of Catherine to prove either way whether it's the same person possibly with clues to other members of your Mary's family appearing on it or we go the long way around & see what turns up  :)