Martha Ann BARTLE

[waddy]

I have reached another dead end with my family research in S.A.  I am looking for the parents of Martha Ann BARTLE, b. Grahamstown May 1860.  Martha married Douglas MCINTYRE in 1879, and they had 1 daughter, Violet Margaret, but Douglas died about 1887.  In  Feb 1889 Martha was married again, to Charles DUBBER, a widower with 5 children from a previous marriage to Amelia LOCKIE.  According to Martha's daughter, Maud Winifred Dubber, Martha's parents were from UK, possibly Kent.  Can anyone throw any light on where Martha's parents came from?
Waddy

[Gillian Mauchan]

HAve you ordered a copy of her death notice? That usually gives the names of the parents of the deceased as well as the names of their surviving children . Her estate papers are in the Cape Archives
MOOC  6/9/4870  53244  DUBBER, MARTHA ANN. NEE BARTLE. ESTATE PAPERS.  1937 1937

You can write to them and order a photocopy - see http://www.national.archives.gov.za/index.htm for details. They charge about 80c (South African) to copy. If her daughter is still in SA it might be an idea to get her to order it for you as the Cape Archives only take Bank deposits for payment

Regards
Gillian

[waddy]

Hi Gillian - Many thanks, but I have already done that, and unfortunately Martha's parents are not listed.  She had 6 children with Charles Richard Dubber, one of whom was Maud Dubber (my late mother-in-law). Maud and  her husband Henry Kirkpatrick went up to the then Northern Rhodesia in the 1920s, and because of the distance etc., simply lost touch with their families.  After 2 more generations born in Zambia we are now in New Zealand, and there is no-one left to ask.  I have researched Death Notices, Wills etc with help, and keep drawing blanks.  My only hope now is that someone somewhere, with the help of this site, will recognise a name and contact me. All I want to do is pass on her African heritage to my Granddaughter.
Regards Waddy

[LauraT]

Hi there Waddy.

I was googling the name Charles Richard Dubber and found your post about Charles and Martha Ann Bartle. My grandfather told me that his grandfather was a Charles Richard Dubber and that he was married to a Bartle. I believe that it must be the same Charles Richard Dubber. My mom also remembers an Auntie Maud. I can help you a little. My grandfather's name is Michael Dubber. He was born and grew up in Graham's Town, South Africa. He had two brothers, Ronald and Dennis, and a sister, Nancy (who became a Murray). Their parents were Myrtle and Oliver Goldwyn Dubber (Goldwyn is apparently a family name). Oliver is one of the children of Charles and, I suppose, Martha Dubber. That is really as far as I have managed to get with that side of the family history so far. Perhaps if you know anything more, you could assist me in reaching further back than Charles Richard Dubber.

I hope I have helped you to some extent.

Laura 

[waddy]

Hi Laura

Thank you so much for getting in touch, it's been nearly 4 years since I posted the query about Martha, and I only found her a few months ago.  She was born in England, not Grahamstown as we were told.  I've managed to find out quite a lot about the Dubbers and Bartles since then, and some of it is hugely interesting, but there is far too much for me to post here, so if you would like to send me a PM we can take it from there. By the way, I hadn't found your Grandfather Michael so that's a great help.

I look forward to hearing from you

Waddy
 

[LauraT]

Hi Again Waddy

I am sorry this has taken me so long. I can't seem to send you a PM and I do not know why.

I have found out a little bit more since I last posted. My Great Grandfather Oliver Goldwyn Dubber (the son of Charles Richard Dubber and Martha Ann (Bartle) Dubber) had some siblings whose names my grandfather can remember. They were: Grace Dubber, Elma Dubber, Norman Dubber and Bert Dubber.

Based on your previous posts I've deduced that all together Charles Richard Dubber had 11 children, 5 from his marriage to Amelia and 6 from his marriage with Martha. I also deduced that Charles and Maud must be 2 of the children that Charles and Martha shared but I am not sure which of the others belonged to both Martha and Charles and which children were from Charles' previous marriage.

As it stands, however, there are 5 children still unaccounted for and my grandfather cannot remember anyone else he called Auntie or Uncle on that side.

Perhaps you can shed some more light for me.

I also have an extra little tit-bit that might interest you. Norman Dubber married an Agnes Dubber and they had a son called Berisford Dubber.

That's what I've found out for the meanwhile.

I hope you can help me. And sorry I couldn't send you a PM.

Laura

[pampoen]

Laura you need to make 3 posts before you can send a PM as you can see you only have 2 posts at present.

[waddy]

Hi Laura,
We have an enormous generation gap here, your GGGrandfather was my husband's Uncle! However given that Charles Dubber had 15 children by 2 wives over 31 years and my husband was a late surprise to his parents it's understandable.  Charles had 8 children with his 1st wife Amelia: Walter, Herbert, Alice, Norman, Ellen, Hector, and Mary; with 2nd wife Martha: Claude, Oliver, Grace, Maud, Mabel, Everitt and Olive Alma (known as Alma). I remember meeting Alma in 1968, for tea at Stuttafords in Durban.
I've traced most of the children so have a lot of info I can give you.  Post 1 more reply to me and we can do a PM.
Look forward to hearing from you again,
Waddy

[LauraT]

Hi Waddy

That's amazing! I had no idea there were so many of them. I would be happy to share the information I have gained as well, though I don't think I have very much in comparison. I noticed that with Charles' first wife you only mentioned 7 children. My grandfather mentioned remembering an Uncle Jim. Was James (or Jim) perhaps Charles' and Amelia's eighth child?

Looking forward to delving a little deeper.

Laura