FRANCIS WARREN b Bedford St Paul abt 1775 - who were his parents??

[johnP-bedford]

The 1841 census entry does have the people you mention, but it does not prove that James & Ann are man & wife, in fact the entry separates James from Ann with the boys Charles & James, suggesting they belong to James while the girl Sophie belongs to Ann.
 
However from the IGI a James Warren married Ann Wooding at Bedford St Paul on 20/04/1823, as did Charles Warren to Ann Smith on 16 Oct 1825 at Bedford St John.

The IGI has baptisms at Harpur Street Weslyan Methodist, Bedford of children of Charles & Ann Warren, both done on 8 Mar 1829, namely Charles Warren born 18 Jan 1826 and James Francis Warren born 18 Jan 1829

There is a burial at Bedford St Paul of an Ann Warren on 19 Aug 1836 age 29, could this be Ann, wife of Charles. There is a baptism of an Ann Smith at Bedford St Cuthberts on 21 Jun 1807, but who knows.

[johnP-bedford]

On 1841 James Warren is listed as a Coach Maker.

On 1851 in Bedford St John's Street is James Warren married aged 51 born Bedford, Coach Builder, together with wife (assumed) Ann Warren aged 49 born Wootton Beds; lodging with Sarah Redman (widow age 56) & family, but she is a publican, so this may not be a family arrangement; however she was born Wootton ?

[kiwicatz]

So the Ann on the 1841 census is Charles wife?

I am so grateful for all the people on this list who know what they're doing, rather than myself who is prone to making wild guesses (which sometimes turn out ok) and clutching at straws.

I'll go searching again to see if I can find any children for James and Ann. I've found a birth in Middlesex for an Ann Wooding that nearly fits - I wish some of these people could give their children unusual names, so's they'd be easier to find!

Thank you again for your help and time.
Jan

Just read your new post about James and he is in Birdwell Yard - still a coachmaker in 1861, looks like Ann has died (or is somewhere else) I (so far) have him dying before 1871, as I can't find him on 1871 census.
I can't find Charles in 1841 or any other year - so I am now really confused about just who is on the 1841 census (which Ann)
Jan

[johnP-bedford]

So the Ann on the 1841 census is Charles wife?

I would say no; most like she's the Ann (ne Wooding) wife of James. As we have both James & Ann on 1851 census. I suspect Charles' wife Ann is the one buried age 29 in 1836.

The James Warren you found in Birdwell Yard St Mary's is a widower, so wife Ann is dead - her death index could be the one in Bedford RD in Dec 1859. Also I found a death index for James Warren in Bedford RD in Sept 1869 aged 67 (=1802).

In 1861 James is with Thomas Warren, born 1812 Bedford & wife Ann & son James. This Thomas is I reckon James's brother; baptised 12/4/1812 St Johns, son of Francis & Catherine.. I tracked Thomas & Ann back through 1851 & 1841 where they are in St Pauls with other children. Interestingly there are burials in Bedford St Paul of Francis on 9 Dec 1846 & Catherine on 20 Nov 1848; both infants - they could be children of Thomas & Ann but I have not found their baptisms. Thomas Warren married Ann Baskerfield on 28 June 1835 at Bedford St Marys.

James Francis Warren married Jane Tinsley at Bedford St Paul on 8 Nov 1852. She was born 1831 Thurleigh, Beds & was the head of household James was visiting in 1851.

Finally (for now) there's a burial of Charles Warren aged 48 in the Bedford Asylum burial ground. He could be the brother of James (the coach maker) but like you I cannot see him on 1841 census

Regards John

[Orpheus]

I wonder whether your man is the one baptised at Wootton on 10 Dec 1773 to James and Elizabeth WARREN. James WARREN married Elizabeth GURNEY at Wootton on 16 Apr 1765. Their family is as follows:

3 Nov 1765 Elizabeth
21 Jun 1767 Rebecca
18 Jun 1769 Mary
24 Feb 1771 James
10 Dec 1773 Francis
30 Apr 1780 Thomas
21 Oct 1781 Ann
12 Jan 1785 Sarah
28 Sep 1787 Thomas
28 Jan 1791 Samuel
15 Jan 1793 Catherine

The will of a James WARREN, yeoman of Wootton, was proved in 1807 and it is possible that he is the father of the above children. Perhaps he mentions the whereabouts of his children. Also, the will of Catherine WARREN, spinster of Wootton, was proved in 1845. She may be the youngest child mentioned above and, being a spinster, may mention the children of her brothers and sisters.

I've looked at the will of James WARREN, yeoman of Wootton, Bedfordshire which includes the following information:

To my sons and daughters Ann WARREN, Sarah WARREN, Thomas WARREN, Samuel WARREN and Catherine WARREN £100 each when they severally attain their respective ages of 21 years or days of marriage with consent of their guardians which ever is the sooner

To my daughter Elizabeth NOTTINGHAM and my son Francis WARREN £5 to be paid by my executors within 6 months after my decease

To my friends Vincent WALLIS and Richard SMITH both of Wootton, yeoman, all my goods and chattells etc. upon trust to pay my just debts etc. and after such payments to pay and apply the residue as follows:

One moiety or half part unto my son James WARREN and the other moiety or half part to my dear wife Elizabeth during the term of her natural life so long as she remain my widow, and from her decease or re-marriage her said moiety to be divided equally between such of my said children James, Ann, Sarah, Thomas, Samuel and Catherine as shall be living at the time of her decease or re-marriage

Vincent WALLIS and Richard SMITH joint executors

Dated 1 Feb 1802

Witnessed by Thos KIDMAN and Sarah LEECH

Proved 26 Dec 1807 upon the oath of Vincent WALLIS one of the executors named in the will

"The personal estate of the testator at the time of his decease did not amount to the sum of fifteen hundred pounds"

The will of Catherine WARREN spinster of Wootton was dated 7 Dec 1843 and proved on 19 June 1845.  She left her entire estate to her two brothers Thomas WARREN and Samuel WARREN.

There is no sign of Francis in Wootton after his baptism so he could still be the person in Bedford St Paul who is buried 22 Feb 1837 aged 67 years

[johnP-bedford]

To my daughter Elizabeth NOTTINGHAM . . . . . . .

Elizabeth Warren married William Nottingham on 31 July 1785 at Kempston & most likely is the Elizabeth Nottingham buried Wootton on 24 Oct 1815 age 49. William Nottingham was buried Wootton on 22 Mar 1833 aged 76, so he could be the one baptised Kempston on 4 Sept 1757, son of Thomas & Susan Nottingham 

[Katehaskell]

I am researching the house I live in which is in Wootton dating back to 1600. I was given a copy of a will of Catherine warren who was a resident here up until her death in 1844. She was a spinster and left it to her brothers Samuel and Thomas. Sounds like the same family. It's a very interesting house!